What's with all the female leaders?

[Murphy]

I have nothing against women, but Firaxis went way to far in their quest to find female leaders, especially for European civs. Isabella and Elizabeth are one thing, but Theodora and Wu? Seriously?

Boudicca - Makes perfect sense.
Elizabeth - Makes perfect sense.
Catherine - Russia's only female leader, doesn't make much sense. Peter the Great or Ivan the Terrible would be better.
Theodora - Wasn't even the leader, Justinaian was.
Maria Theresa - Okay I suppose.
Wu Zeitan - Same as Cathy, but worse. China has been around for thousands of years and only had 1 female leader in all that time, and they put her in? I preffered Civ IVs Shi Huang di standing in front of the Great Wall.
Maria - Poor choice. Henry the Navigator would be better.
Isabella - Most fitting candidate.

Of the 9 European civs, England, Spain, Portugal, France, Dutch, Austria, Germany, Russia, and Venice, 5 have female leaders. You'd think medeival Europe was a bastion of gender equality, or even discrimantion against men!

[CookieMagic]

Rome, Denmark, Sweden, Poland are not European according to you... report for spam

[SamBC]

It's not spam unless the person is posting it repetitively, or trying to get people to do something (click a link, buy stuff, whatever).

[Murphy]

Originally posted by Cookie_Magic:

Rome, Denmark, Sweden, Poland are not European according to you... report for spam

First of all I was in a rush, so I had to cut my post short. (Though I'm not counting Rome; they're Medeterranian, not European.) Even if I was saying they aren't European, that isn't spam, that's ignorance or stupidity. Anyway, my point still stands that Firaxis gave countries leaders that really don't make sense just to increase femanle representation. (Abd they are over-represented.)

[SamBC]

My own opinion... so what if they did?

[galacticreggie]

I agree with Wu Zutian, her being in the game makes no sense. That'd be like having Bhuto as the leader for Pakistan. Just because they are the first or maybe only, does not mean they should represent the nation. Wu Zutian is just the most egregious example of this.

Catherine the Great or Peter the Great would be excellent choices for Russia, and they were both represented in Civ IV and Catherine has represented Russia since Civ II in 1997, and that was when you could choose the gender of your leader.

[galacticreggie]

Wu Zutian didn't even reign when China was at any particular peak of power, she wasn't a particulalry good leader, and she didn't reign for a long time at all compared to other Chinese Emperors. She's in there entirely because she's a woman and it makes no sense in or out of context. If she was a male leader, she would be totally forgotten.

[Murphy]

Originally posted by reggiefive0:

I agree with Wu Zutian, her being in the game makes no sense. That'd be like having Bhuto as the leader for Pakistan. Just because they are the first or maybe only, does not mean they should represent the nation. Wu Zutian is just the most egregious example of this.

Catherine the Great or Peter the Great would be excellent choices for Russia, and they were both represented in Civ IV and Catherine has represented Russia since Civ II in 1997, and that was when you could choose the gender of your leader.

I think Cathy does make sense, but Firaxis shouldn't put too may women as it isn't historically accurate, especially since Peter would be just as good. Its not like Spain, where the is no one half as good as Isabella.

Originally posted by reggiefive0:

Wu Zutian didn't even reign when China was at any particular peak of power, she wasn't a particulalry good leader, and she didn't reign for a long time at all compared to other Chinese Emperors. She's in there entirely because she's a woman and it makes no sense in or out of context. If she was a male leader, she would be totally forgotten.

Exactly my point.

[Skuggan]

You are right. But I think they did it because they would get more crap if they had fewer women in the game

[Starfleet]

I believe it is a market strategy that goes a little beyond the historical events. These women were important of course, but it is a great ideia to give room to them and bring our girls to the game. At least, that's why my wife plays it, she doesn't care about who they were, as long as they are girls. Sad, but it's true.

[ajhartman65]

Actually, if you read up on Wu and what she went through and did to ensure that her son would come to power (which lead to her being in power first) instead of the emperor's other concubines' sons you might see how she fits into the logic of the game which is not just about all out conquering your neighbors....political intrigue does have it's place in this game. This is also why Catherine makes sense as well. Theodora was not the leader of the Byzantine empire, but she was a big part of the behind the scenes leadership.

There are many famous people who could have been thrown out there as leaders for pretty much every civ, and yet we are always getting Washington for the US (although we have seen Abe and FDR in the past civ iterations, even Elanor Roosevelt at one point), why not Jefferson or Franklin as some of the most influential politicians of their time instead of a general? Why always Napolean for France? Sure he is one of the best known, but only one of many of the leaders over time who have kept France a major player on the world stage.

I personally find it refreshing that they do try to mix the leaders up a little with each new version of civ. At least if i want to play as China I am not stuck with Mao, one of the worst leaders in their history. Stalinist Russia is also not a favorite of mine, so I'll take Catherine over Joe any day!

[DerEider]

Originally posted by Murphy613:

I have nothing against women, but Firaxis went way to far in their quest to find female leaders, especially for European civs. Isabella and Elizabeth are one thing, but Theodora and Wu? Seriously?

Catherine - Russia's only female leader, doesn't make much sense. Peter the Great or Ivan the Terrible would be better.
Theodora - Wasn't even the leader, Justinaian was.

Of the 9 European civs, England, Spain, Portugal, France, Dutch, Austria, Germany, Russia, and Venice, 5 have female leaders. You'd think medeival Europe was a bastion of gender equality, or even discrimantion against men!

Boy !! Do we have severe insecurity issues, or what?

If that REALLY bothers you, there are mods out there that provide alternative Leaders for many of the Civ V empires. Especially Russia-USSR. They give as well an interesting selection of alternate UU-UB-UA's.

As to Theodora, she's HOT !! I'd much rather be talking to her than Justinian. She was the real driving force behind their regime anyway. Justy was going to bail when the peasants got out of hand, but 'Dora refused to leave and stiffened his spine [or something] to handle the insurrection.

[DerEider]

Originally posted by SamBC:

My own opinion... so what if they did?

Surely glad to see you review these threads.

[Strategikal]

Originally posted by Starfleet:

I believe it is a market strategy that goes a little beyond the historical events. These women were important of course, but it is a great ideia to give room to them and bring our girls to the game. At least, that's why my wife plays it, she doesn't care about who they were, as long as they are girls. Sad, but it's true.

Yes, I think this is the real reason, marketing, to encourage women to play the game. Many games give options for female characters.

But seriously, how many women play civ? I wouldn't have thought that a strategy game would appeal to many women (or most other types of games for that matter).

[Strategikal]

Originally posted by ajhartman65:

There are many famous people who could have been thrown out there as leaders for pretty much every civ,

I think there should be more multiple leader choices for each civ, as there was in Civ 4. That way you can play the same civs but with different advantages.

Also, it would be good to have male/female choices for every civ, especially if, as Starfleet said, they want to play with a female leader. Does anyone really care what the gender is when they choose a civ? I don't, I just choose based on the abilities of the civ. You never see your own leader when you play the game anyway.

Strictly speaking, there should be many leaders for every civ, that come and go through the ages, bringing with them (and taking away) different advantages as you play the game.

[Strategikal]

Originally posted by Murphy613:

(Though I'm not counting Rome; they're Medeterranian, not European.

Last I checked, the Mediterranean was a sea, not a continent. It's bordered by Europe, Asia and Africa. All countries bordering the Mediterranean are either European, Asian or African. While it's true that Rome has a Mediterranean climate, it's still part of Europe.