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Professional Seal Clubbing 6/dez/2012 às 15:32
I do understand the rant. Partly.
So, I've read through some of the posts in here, some on the blogs that are linked and I was really surprised by what a bad critic that game got.

Since when is the concept of beta funding something new? Wasn't it the same with FTL, Survivors of Ragnarok and many other games? Just because Steam only got into that phase doesn't mean it is particulary a bad thing.

Yes, the developers made some misstakes. Yes, there should be a big, fat red box saying "This game is beta. Do not buy the game if you don't want an unfinished game."

Yes, I do realize that not even on the homepage it says that. That is a really, really bad thing. There is a tiny hinf about pre purchrasing in the FAQ. But seriously, do you see a game on steam, go onto the steam website and say "Hey, those screenshot and that two minute pre rendered trailer do look awesome, I will now totally put 50 euro in this triple a spunkgargleweewee." ? If yes, oh dear.

To get back on the actual topic - everybody knows that greenlight is not even close to finish, nor does it knows what it wants to be - no matter how much Steam want us to believe that. Personally, I am happy if I am able to crowdfund such a project, or even betafund it. That is not something I am opposed of, nor are all the people that voted for this game.

So, yes. Both sides should have checked a bit more about their details.

In any way, I will stick to dwarf fortress because of ASCII.

Yours sincerly,
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Solo Solitaire 6/dez/2012 às 15:54 
Escrito originalmente por Thunder Rush:
Since when is the concept of beta funding something new? Wasn't it the same with FTL, Survivors of Ragnarok and many other games? Just because Steam only got into that phase doesn't mean it is particulary a bad thing.
I've yet to see a single person say this was the first beta funding concept they encountered. Most don't even mind supporting games in development. The outrage is over the lack of disclosure that you mention in the rest of your post. That seems to make this portion of your statement inappropriate for this situation.
Cyborgt 6/dez/2012 às 16:00 
Ok, it sounds like you understand the problem entirely but just feel like flame baiting by saying it's not important. For the sake of summing it all up though, i'll tell you what the primary problem is.

Not only did they never once indicate that this game is not in a finished state, they even actively claimed that it WAS complete in the forums. Nobody cares about the concept of crowdfunding an unfinished product. Had it been stated that was the case from the beginning I rather doubt half of the people would be here talking about it. They've even gone to the extent of removing the pre-order button from their site's main page.

That's about all there is to it really.
[DoH] kiraen 6/dez/2012 às 16:22 
Escrito originalmente por Cyborgt:
They've even gone to the extent of removing the pre-order button from their site's main page.

No they didn't.
Cyborgt 6/dez/2012 às 16:35 
Escrito originalmente por DoH kiraen:
Escrito originalmente por Cyborgt:
They've even gone to the extent of removing the pre-order button from their site's main page.

No they didn't.

Coulda sworn we went over this in another thread. As I recall, they very recently did and now it shows as a buy now button.
Nalidus 6/dez/2012 às 17:34 
Escrito originalmente por Cyborgt:
Escrito originalmente por DoH kiraen:
Escrito originalmente por Cyborgt:
They've even gone to the extent of removing the pre-order button from their site's main page.

No they didn't.

Coulda sworn we went over this in another thread. As I recall, they very recently did and now it shows as a buy now button.

We did. And SMP did change it as of yesterday. Which was only 4 weeks after the game had been released on Steam and they claimed it was finished.
Última edição por Nalidus; 6/dez/2012 às 17:35
Degraiver 6/dez/2012 às 17:38 
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:

We did. And SMP did change it as of yesterday.

You can't claim it was yesterday as you can not recall when it was changed. Just say "they changed it", if that statement is at all true to begin with anyways.
Nalidus 6/dez/2012 às 17:59 
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:

We did. And SMP did change it as of yesterday.

You can't claim it was yesterday as you can not recall when it was changed. Just say "they changed it", if that statement is at all true to begin with anyways.

You really shouldn't assume things.

I know they changed it yesterday as I witnessed it.
Degraiver 6/dez/2012 às 18:04 
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:

We did. And SMP did change it as of yesterday.

You can't claim it was yesterday as you can not recall when it was changed. Just say "they changed it", if that statement is at all true to begin with anyways.

You really shouldn't assume things.

I know they changed it yesterday as I witnessed it.
Pic or it didn't happen. You are too distrust worthy for me to believe you anymore. Any new accusations should come with evidence and not just word of mouth. Hear-say is not admissible in court.
[TB] thunderw 6/dez/2012 às 18:05 
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:

We did. And SMP did change it as of yesterday.

You can't claim it was yesterday as you can not recall when it was changed. Just say "they changed it", if that statement is at all true to begin with anyways.

You really shouldn't assume things.

I know they changed it yesterday as I witnessed it.

I saw it yesterday and then when I went back and the page refreshed, it was changed. So I have to assume it was yesterday or at least in the last 36 hours tops.
Degraiver 6/dez/2012 às 18:10 
Escrito originalmente por thunderwkr:
I saw it yesterday and then when I went back and the page refreshed, it was changed. So I have to assume it was yesterday or at least in the last 36 hours tops.
I refer to the first sentence in my post.
Nalidus 6/dez/2012 às 18:11 
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:

We did. And SMP did change it as of yesterday.

You can't claim it was yesterday as you can not recall when it was changed. Just say "they changed it", if that statement is at all true to begin with anyways.

You really shouldn't assume things.

I know they changed it yesterday as I witnessed it.
Pic or it didn't happen. You are too distrust worthy for me to believe you anymore. Any new accusations should come with evidence and not just word of mouth. Hear-say is not admissible in court.

I see... More personal attacks by the Towns Defense Squad against me because they do not wish to hear the truth.
Nalidus 6/dez/2012 às 18:12 
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por thunderwkr:
I saw it yesterday and then when I went back and the page refreshed, it was changed. So I have to assume it was yesterday or at least in the last 36 hours tops.
I refer to the first sentence in my post.

Can't accept the truth huh?
Degraiver 6/dez/2012 às 18:16 
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:

We did. And SMP did change it as of yesterday.

You can't claim it was yesterday as you can not recall when it was changed. Just say "they changed it", if that statement is at all true to begin with anyways.

You really shouldn't assume things.

I know they changed it yesterday as I witnessed it.
Pic or it didn't happen. You are too distrust worthy for me to believe you anymore. Any new accusations should come with evidence and not just word of mouth. Hear-say is not admissible in court.

I see... More personal attacks by the Towns Defense Squad against me because they do not wish to hear the truth.
Your idea of the truth:
"I caught a fish this big." "Really? do you have a picture" "Why do I need a picture, I'm telling you the truth"

How truth is:
"I caught a fish this big." "Really? do you have a picture" "Why yes of course, how would you know if I'm lying or not if I didn't have proof." Picture is shown. "Wow its true"
Nalidus 6/dez/2012 às 18:19 
Escrito originalmente por Degraiver:
Your idea of the truth:
"I caught a fish this big." "Really? do you have a picture" "Why do I need a picture, I'm telling you the truth"

How truth is:
"I caught a fish this big." "Really? do you have a picture" "Why yes of course, how would you know if I'm lying or not if I didn't have proof." Picture is shown. "Wow its true"

You know... Keep telling yourself whatever you need to make yourself feel better. However, it doesn't make it true.
Degraiver 6/dez/2012 às 18:22 
Escrito originalmente por Nalidus:
You know... Keep telling yourself whatever you need to make yourself feel better. However, it doesn't make it true.
I retort to you with the same. Since we are talking about the Truth.
Última edição por Degraiver; 6/dez/2012 às 18:23
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