Stellaris

Stellaris

(-United Traits-)
Fugasas  [developer] Jan 26, 2017 @ 11:41pm
Bring balance for traits
This thread is for any suggestion to balance or highlight any logic issues of current traits. Suggestion for a new traits should posted in a separate discussion.
Last edited by Fugasas; Jan 26, 2017 @ 11:41pm
< >
Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Iconomy Jan 30, 2017 @ 1:01pm 
Opportunist (+80 migration with -10% all resources) is way way worse than Wander (+100 migration with no downside), for the same cost. They should do entirely different things IMO. Opportunist should mean maybe +20 migration and a slight resource production boots (+5% all).
Fugasas  [developer] Jan 30, 2017 @ 9:07pm 
Thanks for comment. I will tune opportunist in direction you noted. I agree with you.
ColossusCrusher Feb 3, 2017 @ 6:56am 
Scavenger is both misspelled ("scavengar") and undercosted. The vanilla +15% energy and minerals traits cost 2 points each, and this one is also 2 points. I'd suggest either increasing the cost or decreasing the bonus. Maybe 8% for 2? Mathematically it should cost 4 as is. Or maybe add a drawback? Building cost and time to represent shoddy materials scavenged and used?
Fugasas  [developer] Feb 3, 2017 @ 10:27am 
Thanks a lot for pointing that. I will set it on +8% minerals and energy. I will upload soon corrected version.
Nightwing Mar 23, 2017 @ 5:20pm 
Love your mod!

First of all, is there a way to sort all the traits? Right now they are listed kind of randomly. It's neither sorted by name nor by points, which makes it a pain in the ass xD

Here are some Balancing issues I discovered:

- Rapid Breeder(1) gives +10% Groth Time, while Slow Breeder(-1) gives -15%.

- Very Strong(3) grants +40% Army Damage, +10% Minerals while Brutal(2) gives -5% other Species Happiness, +60% Army Damage and +5% Minerals. In my opinion, Brutal is the better one in nearly all situations, while the -5% Happines does not matter much, if you intend to be warlike anyway. The +5% Mineral bonus also does not make much sense, considering that being brutal does not necessarily makes you better at mining. I suggest to make Brutal a pure Army Damage trait. And instead of the Happiness maybe consider to give it -5% social science output.

- Venerable(4) gives +90 years, while Ancient(5) gives +100 years, +20% physics and -5% Social. I feel like Ancient is much more cost efficient, since it practically adds Industrious, +10 years for 1 point. I would suggest to reduce the cost of venerable to 3 points.

- Swarm(2) seems too expensive, since the disadvantages are quite huge. Separately the advantage would be 3x Rapid Breeder(3), ~1,5x Slow Learner(-1,5), and 3x Repugnant(-3), which in sum would be more like -1,5. I feel like this definately has to be redone. Either make it a better form of Rapid Breeder or make it into a disadvantage.

- Replicator(2) has the same problem like Swarm. In it's sum it's with -1 point instead of 2 points.

- Mutant(-3) is far to bad to take and is far to similar to Ghoul as well. The -5% Other species happiness alone would be like taking 5x Repugnant(-5). I would probably give Mutant +Ethnic Divergence instead and reduces the mali so it's worth -3.

- Ghoul(-4) suffers the same problem as Mutant. Parasite Host(-5) and Abomination(-7) have the same problem. And mostly they are just far too similar to each other. I would encourage more diversity.

- Exterminator(-3) It gives -15% other species happyness. That alone is 15x Repugnant and would grant -15 points...

- Naturalist(2) should probably cost 3. Adaptive already cost 2 points and only grant +10% Habitability.

- Sloth(-5) is fair point wise, but practially it's disadvantages are so bad that it's a really really bad trait on any species. Maybe reduce all the aspects to -10%, then add +5% Happiness and set the cost to -4.

- Psycho(-3) shouldn't reduce own happiness (since your whole species is Psycho) but effect diplomatic relationships instead.

- Obnoxious(-4) is a problem, since repugnant costs -1 and only grants -1% Happiness. This difference is kind of harsh.

- Big Creature(1) is just bad. Enduring(1) grants +30 years without negative modifiers.

- Hedonist(2) is a advantage but it really sounds like a disadvantage. At least it should have the same disadvantage direction as Decadent.

- Fanatic(-2) has the same problems as other traits which gives - to other species happiness.

- Unpredictable vs. Rebel: Both cost -2, but rebel has the double amount of negatives and only gives +10% army damage which is worth practically nothing. There is no situation, where Rebel would be better than unpredictable.

- Hive probably should only cost 1.

These are the major inconsistencies that I have discovered so far. I would appreciate a balance patch =)
Fugasas  [developer] Mar 24, 2017 @ 7:34am 
Thanks for review. Sure I will check your comments and dive into trait stats ;) ! I cannot change points, but I can revise stats. I will be back with feedback probably in next week. Now they are sorted by theme (production traits, growth traits and etc). I do not feel that sorting by abc or points would help as my priority to show similar (affecting the same stats) traits next to each other. Also feel free to suggest your trait if you want that I implement it. It is quite easy.
Fugasas  [developer] Mar 27, 2017 @ 7:57am 
This mod is made to not change vanilla traits therefore these traits will be left as is.
Following traits will not be changed: Rapid Breeder(1) , Very Strong(3), Venerable(4).
Other trait that seem are fine as is considering combination of stats (I consider growth very strong modifier, more worth than evaluated by vanilla): Swarm(2), Replicator(2). Psycho – left as is, since there are a lot of traits that reduce other species happiness. I am happy with current Hedonist as this was my main intention, I consider it as very good trait. The same with fanatical it is intentional a bit worse that actually is in order to give more flavor 😊. Hive is left as is, it is combo of very good stats.

Changes that will be made in new version:
Small creature set to 25% growth increase – from previous discussion. Big creature set to +60 years.
Revised and updated mutant, parasite host, ghoul, abomination, exterminator in order to bring more diversity to negative traits. Parasite host – food reduction added, other stats adapted. Negative happiness to other species reduced to most of these traits.
Naturalist – habitability set to +10%. Sloth gets – happiness boost +10%. Obnoxious – set to -4% for other species happiness. Rebel trait gets engineering and physics research boost instead of army damage.

Thank you very much for your review. I hope you will be happy with changes, while I haven’t implemented alteration to all traits you have list, but considered each option.
Nightwing Mar 27, 2017 @ 1:03pm 
Thanks a lot! I like where these changes are going! =) I might be suggesting own traits in the future if they are that easy to add xD
Fulcrum Feb 25, 2018 @ 8:52pm 
The trait big creature seems a little too good for a 1 cost trait; would it be possible to bump up the penalty to growth speed and/or make it a 2 cost trait? The growth penalty is largely offset by the bonus to food which, after stockpile, creates a bonus to growth.
Last edited by Fulcrum; Feb 25, 2018 @ 8:54pm
Fugasas  [developer] Feb 28, 2018 @ 9:43am 
@Fulcrum, thanks for the comment. I will adjust this trait.
ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ Feb 28, 2018 @ 1:01pm 
IMO Advanced Engineer (+30% Engineering output, +30% Minerals output, 3 point cost) is extremely strong for the cost, maybe too much so. Comparing it with the other two "Advanced" science traits which provide +10% Habitability and +10% Happiness for Advanced Physicist and Advanced Sociologist respectively, the +30% Minerals seems noticeably more powerful; especially considering Engineering is arguably the most important research category. My suggestion would probably be taking the Mineral bonus down to something like +15-20%, but of course adjust or not however you see fit, it's your mod after all :)
Fugasas  [developer] Mar 3, 2018 @ 10:26pm 
@Prime, thanks for the comment. I tuned down minerals to +25%, as minerals -5% together with -20% army dmg makes negative 1 pt. I have also revised adv. Sociologist and adv. Physics as they are were also a bit OP according to vanilla trait points. In general I agree minerals are more import with 2.0 release, but I tend to stay in line with the balance of vanilla game as much possible. While it is up to pdx to bring balance to all research sections ;).
Bob Vanus Nov 26, 2019 @ 12:41am 
Standard species

The Advanced research traits - All three of these traits have oddities to me.

Engineering in particular stands out due to the hit to army damage - Theoretically, a focus towards engineering would result in superior standard gear for armies, so a engineering focus resulting in weaker armies seems extremely odd.

Physics comes off as odd for the special bonus it provides - The habitability bonuses all come from the sociology tree, so a physics bonus providing a habitability bonus just seems odd.

Sociology's happiness bonus is the only one that imo makes sense, but the habitibility bonus would be more appropriate to this trait than it'd be to physics so... Not odd by itself, just seems like it should have the hab bonus instead.

Honestly? I'd say change them to a research focus, let them provide a bonus to their specific research type and a negative to other research types.

Rebel - This is entirely meta, but 'deviants' is widely considered the best 'flaw' since it's effects don't have that signifigant of a impact. The negative it provides is pretty much pointless, so it'd be a free +2 points just by itself and thats even before considering that it effectively gives you natural physicists and natural engineers (Which themselves take a point each, and can't be taken together).

Exterminate - Kinda odd to see modifiers that'd both boost and lower energy gain.

Replicator - It references consuming alloys, so it's odd to see it have a negative to energy generation rather than alloy production. Don't know if you can set a negative to alloy production via traits, but if you couldn't then I'd think that a negative to minerals would be more in line with its description than energy would be.

Hive Mind, Machine

Divided/United traits - Given that machine empires are hive minds, it seems odd that they'd have access to these traits.

Immortal/Ancient - Machines have innate immortality, so again odd.

Advanced Physicists - Habitability means ♥♥♥♥ to machines, so this again showcases how odd it is for physics to provide the hab bonus.

Efficient processors and super inefficient/inefficient/super efficient processors - This is more to due with naming than anything. Efficient is vanilla and provides a resource bonus - The 'efficient' processors line added by this mod all affects robot upkeep, while the vanilla equilivants are provided by durable/high maintenance. The oddity is though that picking the efficient processors traits added by this mod locks out the vanilla efficient trait, which again provides a entirely separate bonus to upkeep.

Servant - This only robot type this trait'd make sense on would be rogue servitors, and even then the bonuses wouldn't exactly fit since they'd apply to both the robots and biopops.

Hive Mind, Biological

Cybernetic/Robotic - I know it's just the name, but Bio hive minds are locked out of cybernetic ascension so...

United/Divided - Same as Machines.

Servant - Similar to Robots, just doesn't make much sense to be accessable to hive minds.

Replicator - Again a oddity due to referencing alloys in its description.

Advanced Sociology - Again a oddity due to the happiness bonus.

Overall

Honestly, the biggest issues are the Advanced research traits and the divided/united line.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd say that the advanced research traits should be changed to research focuses and additionally be treated as upgraded forms of the 'natrual' research traits.

United/Divided stands out a lot since it's avaliable to hive minds which doesn't seem appropriate when considering their descriptions. What makes them stand out even more is that they're also duplicates of Traditional/Quarrelsome
Fugasas  [developer] Nov 29, 2019 @ 5:51am 
Thanks for review. I will check if agree with your suggestions and need changes. Regarding united/dived these were added to the game after my mod traits were already present (to check how to make these more unique). Adv. research traits were meant to be balanced considering "thinking"/behaviour of species but not as technological advances.
< >
Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Per page: 1530 50