Maybe not stop all pre sets having boss zeds in waves , but maybe have the pre set more clearly marked for those that dont like it.So maybe nam_pro_v4 hasnt a boss but nam_pro_v4+ (or something)Has a boss in.So people know what they are getting.I for one love the mini boss and you can take him down with just bullets perks.As long as he is ganged upon he is not so much trouble.(Still wondering how he will be in a kite around catacombes)

Is it possible to in the future create a lull in the waves at a certain point for the king fp to show up? say you want this mini boss to spawn in the middle of a wave but with fewer zeds around to make it a little easier to deal with? i just like the idea of two of them showing up at the same time like the kinds of things that show up in borderlands 2's rounds of slaughter.

I will make a v4 without MFP and KFP

Is it easy to make our own custom presets? Right now I just have my own spawn cycle=ini. I would love to have a couple presets for myself to toggle through.

Originally posted by Forbearance:

Is it easy to make our own custom presets? Right now I just have my own spawn cycle=ini. I would love to have a couple presets for myself to toggle through.

You can always make multiple cycles and save them in a folder so you can swap the them around when you want.

I think it's ok to have the King FP as a part of the spawncycle, but you might want to leave a note in the manual that King FP's head health is Maxint.

- I think there should be two versions of Nam's newest spawncycle, the one with KingFPs
should be labeled accordingly.
- Users should be able to spawn any zed they want at any point in the game they like.

I'd also like to point out the problem of how KF1's Sandbox config were handled. Usually every server would use their own specific config, not available to players or other ServerAdmins to download. If every server started using their own "ini" spawncycle it could end up in the same situation. Thus Imo having a database of shared cycles would be recommended.

Thanks for the feedback.

Originally posted by "Kore":

I'd also like to point out the problem of how KF1's Sandbox config were handled. Usually every server would use their own specific config, not available to players or other ServerAdmins to download. If every server started using their own "ini" spawncycle it could end up in the same situation. Thus Imo having a database of shared cycles would be recommended.

I agree. This is why I made the SpawnCycle preset catalog system and invited people to contribute. To date, only you, Nam, and dandyboy have helped make spawncycle presets, and I am grateful for these contributions.

However, the current SpawnCycleDefs mechanism is ill-suited to adding bosses. It's very easy to just throw a boss monster in the middle of a regular wave. However, that means the rest of the wave cannot push the team to its limit, because by definition, reaching the "limit" (however you choose to define it) and then adding a boss would have broken the team.

Packing trash before and particularly after a boss in the wave's SpawnCycleDef very slightly helps smooth the power spike, but this is not really satisfactory.

Before accepting permanent SpawnCycle presets with bosses, I would prefer to investigate and maybe improve this situation. For example, could MaxMonsters be decreased, or SpawnPoll&SpawnMod be increased while the boss is alive? Could spawning taper off or even temporarily stop while one or more bosses are alive, then resume as the last nears death or dies? I feel like providing such tools, if possible, would result in more interesting waves and more robust presets, compared to just throwing bosses in with the trash and offering no way to smooth the difficulty spike.

This is sort of what Cheese Toast was getting at, I think. We may have different specific ideas, but the overall gist is similar.

Slayer and Kore both basically said a variation on 'fork cycles into boss/non-boss and mark each one', but I'm reluctant to commit to SCs with bosses in them when support feels so poor, as I just described.

Nam has graciously reworked both of his latest cycles to remove KFP while still offering a difficulty increase over the pro_v3 and old semi_pro versions. I will probably push a CD update soon that overwrites nam_pro_v4 and nam_semi_pro_v2 with his KFP-less cycles.

In retrospect, I should not have added KFP at all. SpawnCycles do not have good support for bosses yet. But I will keep support for KFP in SpawnCycle=ini, so that servers using him already can continue to do so.

Originally posted by "GM":

I think it's ok to have the King FP as a part of the spawncycle, but you might want to leave a note in the manual that King FP's head health is Maxint.

You're right, I should clearly indicate that KFP is a weekly event boss zed and that he cannot be decapitated. Few people read the manual, but those that do will benefit from such a note.

Originally posted by "Forbearance":

Is it easy to make our own custom presets? Right now I just have my own spawn cycle=ini. I would love to have a couple presets for myself to toggle through.

I've thought about trying to use the engine's raw file-open API for this purpose. I had to postpone it until getting the last release out, and I don't know when I'll get to it.

• While I'm not a huge fan of King Fleshpound being used as a normal zed during a wave, I definitely don't think they should be removed or "banned" outright. CD's always been about customization and the freedom to scale your game settings however you please, kingfp's being no exception. ( avoiding how silly it is that bosses are now being considered "normal zeds" )

Rather than removing these boss type enemies from the game, I'd just make it easier for players to know they're coming at a glance. Here's a really rough example [cdn.discordapp.com] of how it could work. Once CDSpawnSummaries works client-side, it'll take care of the extra details.

• On the subject of modifying game flow to allow for boss zeds to fit better in waves, I'm not sure it's necessary. If anything, warn the players during trader time so they can adjust for it.


All in all, it's just another difficulty setting. If players don't like it, they can find another server.

For my custom zed mod, I changed the King FP's head health to be 800 and torso to be 3000, with shield health for all phases to 10, so that the King FP can be spawned as a regular zed.

Maybe create a modified King FP and make it available to be used in the spawncycle?

@GM I've thought about this, and even prototyped some things locally, but I'm hesitant to add them yet. Tripwire might try to do something similar themselves.

@Monkey That didn't address the premise or my suggested action at all, but thanks for the contribution. "removed or 'banned' outright...removing these boss type enemies from the game" aren't really equivalent to saying i'm going to put a moratorium on them in official SpawnCycles until better features are available, while retaining the ability to spawn them using KFGame.ini customization.

Anyway, Nam has graciously provided new nam_pro_v4 and semi_pro_v2 spawncycle drafts without KFP. We're going through one last draft cycle and then I'll release, overwriting the old pro_v4 and semi_pro_v2 cycles with Nam's new non-KFP ones. KFP will remain supported in SpawnCycleDefs. I will post the SpawnCycleDefs lines corresponding to the old pro_v4 and semi_pro_v2 cycles (the initial version that has KFP), in case someone wants to keep using that exact cycle.

I would consider adding KFP or other bosses to SpawnCycles when CD offers SpawnCycle authors and/or players/admins better ways to regulate the difficulty spike they entail. Right now, we just have a blunt instrument approach where KFP gets dumped into the middle of a wave, and I think I don't want to commit to that approach by accepting indefinitely-maintained SpawnCycles with KFP in the mix.

I feel like the KFP is more fitting as a mini-boss like let's say Wave 7 in Suicidal and Wave 5 In Hell on Earth. It would be nice to see him appear as a mini-boss in some sort of a mutator someday. This would mean that there would be a lot of kiting, but I like kiting. :)