Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

Beyond Typus 11.5
Draíocht  [developer] Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:15am
Research
This overlaps with the "Suggestions" discussion somewhat, so please don't worry if you're not sure where to post, wherever is fine.

This is generally intended to be the place to store & discuss links & quotes from historical research by the more pedantically inclined contributors (for modding purposes this is a very good thing).

Please bear in mind Wiki and other general online encyclopedias are excellent in a: "How about this (wiki link)?" context, when the goal is to bring attention to a well known and accepted fact, but for things such as changing already completed overhauls or when the evidence is disputed, better (more academic or scholarly) sources are strongly preferred.

If there is something wrong in anything (especially something I myself have done) I'm very eager for it to be corrected, but as always, please remain respectful to your fellow researchers. This is a volunteer project and everyone is doing the best they can with the time they have.
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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
Draíocht  [developer] Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:19am 
Ideally, I'm hoping to turn this first post into a link repository for historical sources, organised by region:

Europe
  • Western Europe (Lets call this the Oder & West)

  • Eastern Europe (Lets call this Oder & East)

  • Mediterranean Europe (Lets call this south of the Alps, Pyrenees, & Carpathians)

Asia
  • Near East (Anatolia, Levant, Arabia, Mesopotamia, Persia)
    Information of the Baduspanids Link[www.iranicaonline.org]

  • Indian subcontinent

  • South East Asia & Oceania

  • East Asia

Africa
  • Maghreb

  • Egypt

  • Sahel & Sub Saharan

  • Madagascar

Americas
  • North America

  • Mesoamerica

  • Caribbean

  • South America
Last edited by Draíocht; Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:54am
Draíocht  [developer] Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:47am 
I'll open things up by quoting the conversation which prompted the creation of a new discussion topic:

Originally posted by Smartguy725:
Here's a cited source on the Padusanids: http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/baduspanids

Ifo not-from-wiki is harder to find for Hejaz, but most point to "unified" rule of the area under various suzerains (Fatimids, Ayyubids, Mamluks, Ottomans)

Originally posted by Draíocht:
@Smartguy725

The predominance of the name "Mohammad" in Persia during the 1430s-1450s would suggest the dynasty had been converted, if not the common polpulace. Though I didn't spot any specific reference to Zoroastrianism anywhere in the text at a quick glance, and presumably they started out Zoroastrian. In short: Non-definitive but suggesting Islamic or at best Crypto-Zoroastrian, but still helpful.

And indeed, info on Hejaz is extremely difficult to find... that is the problem!

The best info we have currently, as well as Paradox's handling, suggests the region was independent (albeit vassal) at least, which isn't exactly "unified" under the various major dynasties. Further complicating matters is the region's significance to Islamic peoples -for religious reasons many nation-states identified this as their capital or core territory, even when for all practical purposes their capitals and population centres were located outside of Arabia entirely.

This is helpful, though. Please do keep it up!

Edit - my grammar bad was fixted =p

Originally posted by Smartguy725:
Perhaps, since this is a "suggestions" discussion, we make a research gathering discussion?

I'll also suggest, if we do add it as a Shia nation, perhaps a nation to convert back to Zoroastrian once Shah Rukh dies, considering Paradox's stance that he held the region together?

Originally posted by Draíocht:
@Smartguy725

That is probably quite a good idea! I'll create a new discussion tomorrow with the requisite blah blah (rather buggy at the moment after staring at code for 8 hours).

On the side, I just spotted this in the link you sent, which seems definitive (not what you were hoping for, but still extremely helpful), assuming I'm reading right being so buggy.

"When Eskandar Šayḵī joined Tīmūr’s campaign to Azerbaijan in 802/1399-1400, and Tīmūr put his own men in control of most of Rūyān, Kayūmarṯ b. Bīsotūn was left in possession of the castle of Nūr. Eskandar Šayḵī later returned to the fortress of Fīrūzkūh where he revolted against Tīmūr (ca. 804/1402). The leaders of the army sent against him by Tīmūr asked Kayūmarṯ to join them since he was known to be an enemy of Eskandar. They put him in fetters, however, and sent him to Eskandar in the hope of persuading the latter to submit. Eskandar immediately released Kayūmarṯ who went to Šīrāz to the court of Tīmūr’s son, where he was well received. After the death of Tīmūr in 807/1405 he was arrested. A few months later he escaped and traveled disguised in a group of qalandars to Nūr. There he killed the Timurid commander of the castle and, with the help of the native populace, gained quickly control over all of Rūyān and Rostamdār. Tīmūr’s son Šāhroḵ, who conquered Māzandarān in 809/1407, evidently confirmed his reign and later showed him much favor. During his fifty years’ reign he restored the dynasty once more to a role of prominence on the Caspian scene. He converted to Twelver Shiʿism and induced most of his subjects to follow his example. This meant politically a closer association with the Maṛʿašī sayyeds ruling Māzandarān."

Edit 1 - The good idea was for the research discussion, not the reverting to Zoroastrianism edit, though that would make a fun addition to the flavour mod!
Last edited by Draíocht; Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:56am
Smartguy725 Nov 19, 2017 @ 11:07am 
Since this is up, I'm going to reiterate evidence for an Assyrian tribal federation around Lake Urmia
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/independent-assyrian-tribes.1046634/
Possibly with Syriac/Nestorian added to differentiate between Coptic/Miaphysite.

Any other interesting research I find I'll dump here
Draíocht  [developer] Nov 19, 2017 @ 11:51am 
@Smartguy725

Oh, I had forgotten about that, thanks!

That falls into the Mesopotamia area, but I'll definately look into these when the overhaul makes it there. Excellent.
Smartguy725 Nov 19, 2017 @ 2:07pm 
On a completely unrelated search, I found the ravings of another forum user advocating (quite extensivly) for a more diversified Middle east about 1.5 years ago
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/fertile-crescent-focus-on-details.920691/
Draíocht  [developer] Nov 19, 2017 @ 2:42pm 
@Smartguy725

This looks very helpful, thank you.
Smartguy725 Nov 19, 2017 @ 2:53pm 
No problem!

If you do take some elements fro the post, be sure to ask the guy, seeing how he's still active in the forums
Draíocht  [developer] Nov 25, 2017 @ 2:39pm 
@madiunicorn

Cheers. I'll look into the various minor polities of Europe as I overhaul each region, but having a list to double check is great.

(I think I recall at least one of those in your suggestion posts previously. I haven't forgotten them and will check them out once I move more into Europe.)
Dub Dec 2, 2017 @ 12:17pm 
I'd like to dump an interesting book that, assuming it is true, expresses the need of an OPM in Bulgaria centered on the city of Lovacz/Lovech (Lofça in Turkish) that wasn't conquered until 1462.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=DzsLAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=866&f=false
Draíocht  [developer] Dec 2, 2017 @ 1:00pm 
@Dub

Oh, brilliant.

Those are the sort of little gems that I do so love to find and include. I'll have to give it a read after the update is finished.
Dub Dec 2, 2017 @ 1:06pm 
@Draiocht
It is not so much a book as it is a statement about how the town was not conquered until that date, so there is really not much to go on in terms of defining borders, I'm afraid. :/
Procyon Jan 10, 2018 @ 3:35pm 
I found this handy website for determining the rulers of Russian principalities-unfortunately some of the dates are vague, but it's better than nothing.
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/rulers/alphabio.htm
Draíocht  [developer] Jan 10, 2018 @ 5:11pm 
@Procyon

Thanks for sharing! That site looks like it assembles a lot of information and puts in a convenient format, so I imagine it will be a great reference for quick checking.
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