Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

Beyond Typus 11.5
Birdman42 Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:18pm
Switzerland Suggestion
Hello,

Figured I would post some research I've one for another area. I know that you're probably too busy with fixing 10.0 to pay much attention to this now. But still I hope it helps in the future. This is probably a little too detailed and needs some cuts but I think it's a decent first draft.

Notes on Associated States:

A number of territories chose throughout our period to "Associate" themselves to the Swiss Confederation. This was a form of close alliance with either the Confederation as a whole or with one or more individual cantons within the confederation. While this certainly did obligate the Confederation (or members within it) to come to the defense of Associates during times of war it did not seem to give the Confederation any substantial power over the internal affairs of the Associate. Currently this is represented in game by having the associates be a part of Switzerland, ie by side-stepping the problem entirely. However, I don't think that this relationship would be well represented by a normal alliance either. I think that the way I would go about it (ie the least-worst way I can think of) is to have the associated states as a special form of vassal to the SWI tag similarly to what you did for the Papal States in relation to the Papacy. So that Switzerland would be obligated to fight alongside its Associates during defensive wars, and vice-versa, but that it would entirely optional for the Associates to join an offensive war by Switzerland, and vice-versa. Also the Associated states should not give any tribute, taxes, manpower, etc to Switzerland. And maybe there could be some late-game decision/event that would allow Switzerland to incorporate them. It would have to be late game because most of the Associated territories didn't join Switzerland until either the Helvetic Republic (Napoleonic puppet government) or the Treaty of Vienna at the end of the Napoleonic Wars.


Spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P1TMHv9EQ_CKfHgdp1pBDV-E4gdNmlzE5jLMbvtb43o/edit?usp=sharing

Maps:

Territorial Evolution of the Old Swiss Confederacy:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Territorial-development-Swiss_Confederacy.png

Administrative Divisions of the Helvetic Republic:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Karte_Helvetik_3.png

18th Century Swiss Confederation:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Historische_Karte_CH_18_Jh.png

13 Cantons of Old Swiss Confederation:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Karte_13_Alte_Orte.png

Territories Associated to Old Swiss Confederation:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Karte_Zugewandte_Orte.png


Province Map:

https://imgur.com/5EWhqO8


Provinces:

1: Geneva; Already exists in BT 10.0. I would recommend however, that it become its own tag as a vassal to Savoy. It was effectively autonomous from the dukes of Savoy, although they tried very hard to change this. It was first granted autonomy in 1387 and its local notables pushed for more and more autonomy over the years. There was a great deal of very dramatic back and forth political battles between the Dukes of Savoy and the Grand Council in Geneva. In 1526 after gaining full independence from Savoy the city-state Associated with the Swiss Confederation but did not actually join the confederation fully into 1814/1815 at the Congress of Vienna. Was a major center of the reformation (John Calvin).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Geneva


2: Vaud: Already exists in BT 10.0. Was a territory of the Dukes of Savoy in 1444 up until its conquest by Bern (a member of the Swiss Confederation) in 1536. Stayed in Switzerland for the rest of the period except for some brief periods during the Napoleonic Wars. Converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Vaud

3: Fribourg: Part of Vaud province in BT 10.0. I argue that it should instead be an independent tag that is a vassal to Austria. The Habsburgs had been effectively the overlords of Fribourg since they bought the territory in 1277. The territory was effectively autonomous however, with its own armies and elected government. In 1452 the Habsburgs ceded the city to the Dukes of Savoy. The city would gain full independence in 1477, became an Imperial City in 1478, and then join the Swiss Confederation in 1481. Remained Catholic during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fribourg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Fribourg

4: Neuchatel: One of the more interesting parts of Switzerland. Spent most of the period under the rule of various distant dynasties; First the Lords of Freiburg, then to the House of Baden, then to la duchess de Longueville, then to the Swiss Confederation during a decade-and-a-half occupation, then back to the duchess de Longueville, and then finally to the Hohenzollerns of Prussia. It remained in Hohenzollern hands (under a personal union) until 1848 when a Republic was declared. Although it was briefly occupied during the Napoleonic Wars and Frederick Wilhelm III did allow it to join the Swiss Confederation as a sort of Condominium. Converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation. Anyway, it is a very small province and probably won't make it into the game but if it does I think it should be an independent tag under some combination of personal unions with whatever tags best represent these various dynasties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuchâtel#Middle_Ages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Neuchâtel#History

5: Jura: Jura represents the western half(ish) of the territories of the Prince-Bishopric of Basel. This was predominately French and Catholic unlike the German & (Eventually) Protestant eastern half. It also represents the territory that remained under the control of the Prince-Bishophric after the Reformation drove it out the newly protestant territory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-Bishopric_of_Basel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Jura

6: Basel: The other half of the territories of the Prince-Bishophric of Basel. Home of a major university and an important ecclesiastic center for much of western Europe. Also a major center of book publishing after the invention of the printing press. Converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-Bishopric_of_Basel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel

7: Aargau: A territory conquered by the Swiss Confederation from the Habsburgs 1415. Was a important grain growing region for the Confederation. Eventually fully integrated into the Confederation as a canton in its own right. Mostly converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Aargau

8: Lucerne: A independent city state that in 1332 joined the Swiss Confederation as its 4th member. The first important town to join the confederation. Stayed in Swiss hands throughout our period (excepting Napoleon). Remained Catholic during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Lucerne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucerne

9: Bern: Same as in BT 10.0. Probably the most important member of the Swiss Confederation. Certainly the largest and most militarily powerful. Joined the confederation in 1353. Became the capital of the new Swiss Federation in 1848. Converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bern

10: Zurich: One of the richest cities in Switzerland and occasional capital of the Swiss Confederation. Joined the Confederation in 1351. Converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zürich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Zürich

11: Thurgau: A holdover of Habsburg rule over much of Switzerland. That dynasty gained this territory in 1264 and held it until 1460 when it was taken by the Swiss Confederation in a war. Eventually Thurgau became a canton in its own right. Mostly converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Thurgau

12: St Gallen: Represents the Abbey of St Gall an important religious sight and principality in its own right. Fought both with and alongside the Swiss Confederation and eventually chose to Associate with the Confederation but never joined it. In 1803 the territory formally joined the Swiss Confederation although by that point the Abbey no longer existed as an independent power (although it continued to exist as a purely spiritual institution). Converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation. I would suggest that this be represented as an independent tag. Admittedly this territory is quite small and should probably be one of the first on the cutting boards if things must be cut.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Gallen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_St._Gallen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_of_Saint_Gall

13: Appenzell: A breakaway territory from the Abbey of St Gall that rebelled in 1401-1405 and joined the Swiss Confederation as a canton in 1411. Stayed in the Switzerland for the rest of our period (excepting Napoleon). Would remain Catholic during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appenzell

14 & 15: Lower and Upper Valais Respectively: The Valais was the traditional territory of the Bishopric of Sion. However when the Dukes of Savoy claimed that title around 1370 the local independent communities (Zenden) refused to recognize their sovereignty. This kicked decades of intermittent fighting between the forces of the Zenden and the Savoyards which ended up splitting the territory in two. in 1444 these are; a smaller primarily Francophone Lower Valais in the hands of the Dukes of Savoy; and a larger primarily German speaking Upper Valais under the independent Bishop of Sion. Eventually in 1475 the Bishop and Zenden invaded and conquered Lower Valais from the Dukes of Savoy. In 1529 the united Valais associated with the Swiss Confederation. Would remain Catholic during the Reformation.

16, 17, 18: The Graubunden, or Grey Leagues, an alliance of three individual leagues, the League of God's House, the Grey League, and the League of Ten Jurisdictions respectively. I carved up the Graubunden province to represent each of these three as their own province. The League of God's House formed in 1367 to fight off the influence of the Bishopric of Chur and the House of Habsburg. The Grey League formed in 1395 to put an end to endless intermittent violence between local petty lords. The League of Ten Jurisdictions formed in 1436 after the death of the Count of Tonnenburg (who ruled the area) without an heir. These three Leagues formed a broader alliance in 1471. They would not form a more formal, stronger union until 1524. The Three Leagues together would Associate with the Swiss Confederation in 1497. Rough religious parity between Catholics and Reformed after the Reformation. So technically the Graubunden tag shouldn't exist in 1444 and instead each of these Leagues should (historically) be its own separate tag until either 1471 or 1524. However, I would understand if you didn't want to do that. They would be very small and insignificant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Grisons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_God%27s_House
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_League
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_Ten_Jurisdictions

19: Unterwalden: One of the founding members of the Swiss Confederation in 1315. Was later split into two half-cantons. Remained in Switzerland throughout our period (Excepting Napoleon). Remained Catholic during the Reformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterwalden

20: Uri: One of the founding members of the Swiss Confederation in 1315. Remained Catholic during the Reformation. Remained in Switzerland throughout our period (Excepting Napoleon).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Uri

21: Schwyz: The Third founding member of the Swiss Confederation in 1315. One of the richer cities in Switzerland and the source of the name of the country as a whole. Remained Catholic during the Reformation. Remained in Switzerland throughout our period (excepting Napoleon)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Schwyz

22: Glarus: Joined the Swiss Confederation in 1352 after gaining independence from the Habsburgs. Very poor and lightly populated. Mostly converted to the Reformed Church during the Reformation, Zwingli preached here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Glarus

23: Ticino: Same as you made it after the Italy overhaul in BT 10.0!
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
Draíocht  [developer] Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:31pm 
@Birdman42

Thanks!

Yeah, a bit busy with 10.0 at the moment, but I'm pleased to see this and will keep it in mind!
Nikicaga Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:52pm 
@Birdman42
That's great work!
Chairman Meow and I have a draft as well, that's *even more* detailed. Adding Gruyers, Aigle, Visp/Brig, Solothurn, Toggenburg, Sargans, Kyburg, though cutting some of the central cantons.
Amyzonis Oct 23, 2018 @ 4:18pm 
@Birdman42
Over on IR we recently put together this version of Switzerland. Not quite as detailed, but the high elevation differential made clickability an issue. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqOeF-0U8AAgm5B.jpg:large
Birdman42 Oct 23, 2018 @ 8:19pm 
@Amyzonis

Interesting! That actually looks like some of what I was thinking about if I needed to make some cuts.

I am curious though as to why you decided to represent Bern and Zürich as Independent tags. From my research I found that Bern joined the Swiss Confederation in 1353 and Zürich joined in 1351. While I do recognize that all the members of the Confederation were very independent and persuade their own foreign policies I don't see what is different about those two versus the other Cantons other than that Bern & Zürich are larger and wealthier and thus were able to be more aggressive. In my personal opinion I felt that either all the members of the Confederation should be represented under the SWI tag or they all ought to be independent in some sort of permanent alliance. Because I know that several of the central cantons waged their own wars independently or in some partial combination during this period. Uri for example invaded the Milanese alps quite a few times.

Other than that I like what you did and think that it makes a lot of sense as a compromise to provide greater detail without (potentially) drastically altering playability.
Nikicaga Oct 23, 2018 @ 11:23pm 
@Birdman42
Zurich should definitely be it's own tag. In 1444 it was in the middle of a war with the rest of Swiss Confederation over who gets the former Toggenburg lands.
Birdman42 Oct 24, 2018 @ 6:31am 
@Nikicaga
Totally correct about that. That's what I get for saying something without checking back over my notes. It still doesn't explain the independent Bern though. Although, the Old Zurich War really does raise the question of how to represent the Old Swiss confederation in-game as it genuinely was a confederation of otherwise independent territories that very much pursued their own interests, often aggressively and occasionally in contradiction to each other. But at the same time the connection was tighter than a mere alliance, see as how Zurich was re-admitted almost immediately after the conflict over the Toggenburg land subsided. It is difficult to represent accurately within the EU 4 engine.
@Birdman

Maybe reusing the native federation mechanics could work. Having then start as a federation, however you can only have a limited number of members I believe. Alternatively a new subject type of sorts could work, it is just a question of who would be the overlord, maybe a central forest canton province would.
Amyzonis Oct 24, 2018 @ 1:53pm 
We have a unique vassal type for Cantons, and Bern is a Canton in 1444. (Bern conquered Fribourg and Solothurn IIRC, hence why it is represented as an Canton vassal, rather than just Schwyz. Also added a unique Canton tag for every swiss province.
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