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Men of War: Assault Squad 2 >  Workshop > Normand's Workshop > #valour (# v a l o u r) > Discussions
#valour (# v a l o u r)
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Elchman69 Jul 12, 2019 @ 11:19am
British Tanks
I would like to have a more detailed look into Britains Crusader Tanks, I know we had this discussion already but my research doesnt seem to bring satisfying results about the armor values.
The MK I has the values
armor in mm
front
side
rear
top
Body
34
20
16
14
Turret
32
23
19
12
Also it has 5 crew thats right, the fifth man gunned the small MG turret
But I dont know about the armor because my souces say different things

While the MK II only has 4 crew due to the removed MG turret, thats also correct
Also the MK II comes with
armor in mm
front
side
rear
top
Body
40
28
28
14
Turret
49
24
30
12
Also the armor values are very vague because there is no reliable source for that

The MK III has 4 crew members but should have 3
Quote from
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Cruiser-MkVI_Crusader.php
"The crowded turret, equipped with exhaust vents for the gun fumes also dictated a drastic reduction of the crew (now three, the commander was also the loader)."

Quote from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_tank
"The larger gun restricted turret space, so the crew was reduced to three, with the commander also acting as gun loader,...."

Also it comes with
armor in mm
front
side
rear
top
Body
40
28
28
14
Turret
51
24
30
12
I dont know how the body armour and turret armor changed from version to version
Because these are my sources
And they all say different things

http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:crusader-tank&catid=37:cruiser-tanks&Itemid=56

https://ww2db.com/vehicle_spec.php?q=170

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Cruiser-MkVI_Crusader.php

https://wwiitanks.co.uk/FORM-Tank_Data.php?I=312

https://wwiitanks.co.uk/FORM-Tank_Data.php?I=314

https://wwiitanks.co.uk/FORM-Tank_Data.php?I=316

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_tank

In all of my books and internet research I couldnt find a armour value that fits in general
I know that armor in not only "front, side, rear, top", there are many more values in game
and also in real life, like gun mantlet and so on. But maybe your sources are better than mine
Maybe you wanna check on that

Also the Centurion MK II turret gunner is not "holding" the MG
Last edited by Elchman69; Jul 12, 2019 @ 11:26am
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Elchman69 Jul 27, 2019 @ 2:55am 
MK I should be
armor in mm
front
side
rear
top
Body
26
27
27
7
Turret
20 (39 on mantlet)
19
24
9

MK II should be
armor in mm
front
side
rear
top
Body
32
26
27
7
Turret
30 (49 on mantlet)
23
30
12

MK III should be
armor in mm
front
side
rear
top
Body
32
27
27
7
Turret
32 (51 on mantlet)
23
29
12
Also Crew should be 3

And Centurion MK II Turret mounted MG is not held by the gunner

sources used

https://www.onwar.com/weapons/tanks/firearms/fcrusader1.html

https://www.onwar.com/weapons/tanks/firearms/fcrusader2.html

https://www.onwar.com/weapons/tanks/firearms/fcrusader3.html

https://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=397048&sid=f0ee649039904f6e1dea5dda0f5d35c9&mode=view
Last edited by Elchman69; Jul 27, 2019 @ 2:56am
#1
Normand  [developer] Jul 28, 2019 @ 12:35am 
Hmm... It is difficult for me to redo volumes of British Crusader Tanks.
I don't think that the changing values in def files make sense.
#2
Elchman69 Jul 28, 2019 @ 1:25am 
what do you mean by "volumes"?
#3
Normand  [developer] Jul 28, 2019 @ 1:29am 
Mk.1 volumes:
("armor_medium" turret(32 23 19 12) body(34 20 16 14) body2(34 20 16 14) body3(22 18 17 7))
("armor_engine" t(10 20 16 14))

What values you should put for body1 volume, body2 or body3 volumes?
Where I can find mantlet volume here?
#4
Elchman69 Jul 28, 2019 @ 1:34am 
is there a gun_rot?
that would be the mantlet
looking into it in blender (a similar tool to 3ds max)
#5
Elchman69 Jul 28, 2019 @ 1:37am 
I also found this
}
{Volume "mantlet"
{thickness 20}
in crusaderi.def in entity_vehicle1.pak/entity/-vehicle/tank_medium in your mod folder
#6
Elchman69 Jul 29, 2019 @ 1:27am 
ok, if you think that the armour values are correct and it doesnt make any sense for you to change them, than can you at least look at the crew, the crusader mk III had only 3 and not 4
and the bug that the centurion mk II gunner is not holding the mg
#7
Normand  [developer] Jul 29, 2019 @ 6:23am 
crusader mk III had only 3 and not 4 and the bug that the centurion mk II gunner
Fixed.
#8
Elchman69 Jul 29, 2019 @ 12:19pm 
The Crusader AA MK I and MK II are based on the chassis of the Crusader MK III so they should have the same hull armor.
Because they are based on Crusader MK III chassis they should be available after MK III is available (sources say survived MK III 6pdr weapon was replaced by 40 mm (1.57 in) QF Bofors), in real life it saw first action october 42, in game its from 43 on, so AA MK I should be available from 43 and not 42.
Also AA MK II is missing its .303 (7.7 mm) Vickers machine gun.
#9
Elchman69 Aug 12, 2019 @ 10:52am 
And the AA MK II has only 3 crew
Sources say the MK I had 4 (which is correct in the mod/game) and only difference to AA MK II was position of the radio, so I assume AA MK II had also 4 crew
#10
Elchman69 Sep 6, 2019 @ 11:08am 
any progress on this topic?
at least the missing mg on the AA MK II
#11
Normand  [developer] Sep 6, 2019 @ 2:00pm 
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Crusader_AA_Mk_I
3 crew
https://wiki.warthunder.com/Crusader_AA_Mk_II
4 crew

mod has
crusaderaa1 -4 n1(3) n2(1)
crusaderaa2 -3 n1(2) n2(1)

Last edited by Normand; Sep 6, 2019 @ 2:06pm
#12
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