Hi,

Beyond the obvious bugs you're already working on I have one suggestion, although it's a bit more pragmatic than fun.

You have removed some vanilla items like light armour, shields and furniture to make room for what this mod adds. And if I understand your intentions correctly you planned to add more stuff but ran into a hard cap of the amount of items allowed in the game.

If that's the case to get more content I'd recommend biting the bullet and making a single "generic" magical metal item that each race can build via their own recipe in their own building, but with the same name and id. That can then be used to build the various types of unique gear.

Example: vampires can make magical metal from metal + blood/thralls. And then use it for bloodblades and shields (those can't be combined in equipment btw)
Dwarfs can make it from metal + gems, and then make gromril stuff out of it.
HE makes it from metal + moonstone. etc etc

Etc etc. Doing this with cursed steel/runic steel/Ithilmar gives 2 new items to make the game more interesting, like new equipment.

A similar thought process can be applied to the various types of magical silk (also on that point: does DE need a middle step where you farm it -> make just the product into the next step -> use the product for unique gear?).

I understand if "Hey nice mod, wanna consider removing a bunch of stuff you worked on in it?" might not the most fun thing to hear. But with the limitations of the game consider the opportunity cost of not doing it.

Does having multiple types of refined magical metal that then become end products make the game more interesting than a singular middle step and more possible endsteps?

(Or maybe I missunderstood regarding the item cap and am just yelling at clouds).

Also some minor points:
The balance for the new climates is wack, like in vanilla cold has some benefits for Onxs and Herb farming that temperate lacks, here temperate plains just seem the best across the board.

I can find plenty of generic techs that boost farming, but none that boost pastures?

Shouldn't DE nurseries use their bloodgrapes instead of fruit? Or at least a fooditem they have preference for.


Still, great and impressive mode. Especially the pace of the content added.

Thanks for the feedback, got a couple followup questions

1. With the extra items freed up from combining the various metals. I assume you want to get items back like the standard shield or flanx? Or is there something else in mind you think is required. Also, what you request would make a centralized resource required by all/most races to reach late-mid game gear. A generic magical metal. Probably could work with a bit of balancing considering somethings are far harder to get than others. It would buff dwarves in any city because they got the best metal production though I dont think any race is trash at metal production. It would also buff trading because many races will produce this with higher efficiency. I will look into it.

2. Yea balancing is a huge issue. The mod has changed rapidly, almost too rapidly. Tech is my focus right now because of the assymetric boosts in racial tech and frankly the costs just seems too high in general. I cracked some numbers and it takes far to many people sometimes. I will revamp climate change tonight because thats easy. Pasture tech will be examined too.

3. I actually ran a druchii game for an hr or two yesterday in a coastal region to test balancing. Loyalty is definitely an immediate problem if you arent at maxed happiness. Bloodgrapes are too expensive which is why fruit is the nursery item.

4. What races have you played recently? If you encountered huge problems with a particular race i would like to know because some races have not been updated after the tech overhauls.

5. I am thinking about making racism stronger in the game. Right now it seems i can just slap druchii and high elves together like no big deal and that doesnt make sense. In the same thread, I want religious opposition to be stronger but make religion bonuses stronger too. I want unlocking temples and upgrades shrines to be a goal because of strong religious bonuses

Originally posted by Romping the gay:

Thanks for the feedback, got a couple followup questions

....

1. Bring back the generic light armour and shield, and also (or instead of the shield) the generic great weapon. Leaving those out leaves alot of "holes" in how you can equip your army depending on what race you place. I've played a bit with DE (mostly before the climate update) with the current set up if you want melee elves you'll have to leave them an empty hand as shields or big swords dont exist.

Silly stuff like that is avoided by having the generic option, but giving it the warhammer flair (hand weapons instead of "falcatas", Greatweapons instead of "Flanx"). Still having the baseline around will also help with balancing/refering the unique equipments for each race. So instead of Gromril axes and Bloodblades being stuck compared to each other you can also see them against a generic version.

Also a key part of the generic magical metal and balancing would be different races having different ways of making it. Dwarfs might be the best at making metal in general but the Skaven might have a more economic recipe (involving warpstone and workplace accidents)?.

2. Speaking of tech. Does the mod need to have strictly different "basic" techs than the base game?
An option would be to take the tech tree of the base game, slap warhammer names and flavour onto it and but keeping balancing pasture vs farm production buffs in Jake's territory (whilst only doing minor edits like making sure the new crops/ores/buildings also get buffed). Whilst focusing development on the unique race techs and balancing them.

3. I see, but I'll still recommend having it as one of their preferred food items (meat?). Or make it clear to the player that it's intended difficulty that getting the nursery item (fruit) is going to a be problem in the preferred climate (cold).

*0.7 loyalty is harsh, especially when all the tech bonuses are additive. Maybe counter act it by having the Khaine religion give a 1.3 back (for a total of .91 loyalty, once everyone is the same faith).


4.
In the pre climate update I played a DE game that got to a few hundred pops, also had about 10% vampires (but no zombies, preffered slaves). Quit after I reached the state where you fight other factions and noticed everyone has 0 morale and surrenders instantly. Btw dont know if it's been fixed yet but for that entire game (~15 years ingame) I never once got visited by raiders.

5.
0% preference isn't enough? Huh, I never tried sticking DE and HE together. Maybe see if you can make the preference number negative (if it doesnt crash the game) or set those religions to super hate each other. Speaking of religion it's kinda hard to tell the icons apart, a lot of the same color scheme makes them blend into each other.

As I mentioned on point 3, maybe make it so that Khaine (and the horned rat, skaven also had the 0.7 mod right?) gives loyalty. Chaos gives happiness, and the order techs give a bunch of production boosts but extreme penalties to submission to make it not viable to have slaves with them?

I haven't played enough to give proper input on religions. Is it intended that you can choose and run a chaos Tomb Kings if you feel like it, or a more strict & lore friendly approach?

Originally posted by Battle Sausage:

Originally posted by Romping the gay:

Thanks for the feedback, got a couple followup questions

....

1. Bring back the generic light armour and shield, and also (or instead of the shield) the generic great weapon. Leaving those out leaves alot of "holes" in how you can equip your army depending on what race you place. I've played a bit with DE (mostly before the climate update) with the current set up if you want melee elves you'll have to leave them an empty hand as shields or big swords dont exist.

Silly stuff like that is avoided by having the generic option, but giving it the warhammer flair (hand weapons instead of "falcatas", Greatweapons instead of "Flanx"). Still having the baseline around will also help with balancing/refering the unique equipments for each race. So instead of Gromril axes and Bloodblades being stuck compared to each other you can also see them against a generic version.

Also a key part of the generic magical metal and balancing would be different races having different ways of making it. Dwarfs might be the best at making metal in general but the Skaven might have a more economic recipe (involving warpstone and workplace accidents)?.

2. Speaking of tech. Does the mod need to have strictly different "basic" techs than the base game?
An option would be to take the tech tree of the base game, slap warhammer names and flavour onto it and but keeping balancing pasture vs farm production buffs in Jake's territory (whilst only doing minor edits like making sure the new crops/ores/buildings also get buffed). Whilst focusing development on the unique race techs and balancing them.

3. I see, but I'll still recommend having it as one of their preferred food items (meat?). Or make it clear to the player that it's intended difficulty that getting the nursery item (fruit) is going to a be problem in the preferred climate (cold).

*0.7 loyalty is harsh, especially when all the tech bonuses are additive. Maybe counter act it by having the Khaine religion give a 1.3 back (for a total of .91 loyalty, once everyone is the same faith).


4.
In the pre climate update I played a DE game that got to a few hundred pops, also had about 10% vampires (but no zombies, preffered slaves). Quit after I reached the state where you fight other factions and noticed everyone has 0 morale and surrenders instantly. Btw dont know if it's been fixed yet but for that entire game (~15 years ingame) I never once got visited by raiders.

5.
0% preference isn't enough? Huh, I never tried sticking DE and HE together. Maybe see if you can make the preference number negative (if it doesnt crash the game) or set those religions to super hate each other. Speaking of religion it's kinda hard to tell the icons apart, a lot of the same color scheme makes them blend into each other.

As I mentioned on point 3, maybe make it so that Khaine (and the horned rat, skaven also had the 0.7 mod right?) gives loyalty. Chaos gives happiness, and the order techs give a bunch of production boosts but extreme penalties to submission to make it not viable to have slaves with them?

I haven't played enough to give proper input on religions. Is it intended that you can choose and run a chaos Tomb Kings if you feel like it, or a more strict & lore friendly approach?

1. Yea I figured it was the battle equipment being so lopsided. I will see what I can do.

2. The tech does not need to be strictly modded or strictly base game. To be honest, I only became a contributor a couple days ago so I still got quite a bit of code to look over. The main author, atticus, has been working on this for a couple months already

3. Thats easy to fix. I can make it meat right now, but pastures aren't great in the cold either. I actually would recommend coastal for the dark elves which was what I played. Solid fishery, good bonuses for blood grapes and altogether easier expansion. The way I see it, tundra and frozen wasteland should be a harsh, difficult to survive biome which hardens the people and allows expansion elsewhere. Atleast, this is how I am currently adjusting climate modifiers.

4. Yea that problem plagued us lmao. Atticus fixed it and now no one will run away instantly anymore and the battles dont crash and the enemies dont have weird -400% attack or something (atleast the main crash, negative age, is fixed). I did get raided once recently so its there. Maybe you were too strong, i can slip in some raid security reduction into gen tech if formula is scaled too easily

5. Religious opposition is a fulfillment thing that I will defintiely be adjusting. I want those that
hate each other to take out a big enough chunk of fulfillment to be troublesome. Otherwise, recruiting every damn race is optimal way to go.

Half question and half feedback. How to get Blood Kiss? Or rather, how to make more vampires as a vampire main?

And the feedback: It would be nice to have more Wants/Wishes flavor, I am playing as vampire and seeing the More: Torch, More: Clothes, More: Torch (Upgrade) were a tad annoying, in comparison to the funny and flavorful wishes from vanilla races.

Edit: In the Wishes flavor, you could even use GPT to make up the messages.

And another thing I could say - though I dunno if you implemented already or not - that I loved from Technology Expanded mod: Racial Slavery tech. Basically technology that depends on how many slaves of a certain race you have, and you get bonuses, like in TE you got research bonuses with human slaves.

Originally posted by cesarjunior233:

Half question and half feedback. How to get Blood Kiss? Or rather, how to make more vampires as a vampire main?

And the feedback: It would be nice to have more Wants/Wishes flavor, I am playing as vampire and seeing the More: Torch, More: Clothes, More: Torch (Upgrade) were a tad annoying, in comparison to the funny and flavorful wishes from vanilla races.

Edit: In the Wishes flavor, you could even use GPT to make up the messages.

Vampires, right now, can be immigrated. We have a whole lot of ideas for vampires that are currently in progress, including properly limiting them to blood, implementing the Blood Kiss, and fleshing out zombies which are supposed to make most of the city's labor whereas vampires should be elite, both in the city and on the battlefield.

In terms of want/wishes, I guess you either got unlucky or we haven't added enough for the vampires. There are literally thousands of them. (e.g for food starvation, "The thirst grows unbearable! More blood!", "Empty veins mean frenzied vampires!", "The blood banks run dry while we hunger!") I played yesterday and the dwarves properly wanted ironbreakers to defend their hold so it definitely works.

Originally posted by cesarjunior233:

And another thing I could say - though I dunno if you implemented already or not - that I loved from Technology Expanded mod: Racial Slavery tech. Basically technology that depends on how many slaves of a certain race you have, and you get bonuses, like in TE you got research bonuses with human slaves.

We already have racial techs. Each race has its own unique tech tree only unlockable when you have enough of that race. Doing it for slaves too is easy. Probably will add it for races like Dark Elves. For vampires and tomb kings, tech with required amount of zombies/mummies seems fitting.

I don't think I should post this here but I'll post regardless. I am playing as Dark Elf, managed to grow to 500 pop, decided to test war with debug spawning armies and conquered a neighboring province. How to build stuff in there? I only managed to build thr 1st civ building + walls and now all other options are grayed out, even with money to spare. The game wiki is super outdated.

And on an actual feedback, there could be more tech to boost husbandry buildings, it is pretty hard to make meat.

Give tomb kings heat resistance, they keep dying of heat exposure.

Tomb kings nursery is bugged, I have 200 tomb kings but the UI said my population can support 0 children and all infants died.

Probably a well issue for Tomb Kings. They already have 15x heat resistance lmao

Tomb King Nursery I will look into it. It might be that you don't have enough workers in the nursery or the food needed to "raise" the tomb king babies

Zombies don't work as well. Turned out I need Mummies and Zombies population to breed them. But I can't get them if I can't breed them.

more of a rant than anything of value and to be seen but i cherish the day that a 40k version comes out where you can just watch each solider be independent with there actions on the battle field and the hordes.

Originally posted by 瓦西里·留里克维奇:

Zombies don't work as well. Turned out I need Mummies and Zombies population to breed them. But I can't get them if I can't breed them.

A fix is completely being worked on for it. For some reason changing this screws with the military system?? Otherwise this would be the easiest fix.

Edit: I fixed it