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Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

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Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut >  Workshop > Southwind's Workshop > Shadowrun Unlimited > Discussions
Shadowrun Unlimited
Description Discussions46 Comments635 Change Notes
Bloonter Nov 28, 2014 @ 2:54am
The Story [Obviously Spoilers]
I was incredibly excited by the idea of the mod, it seems like everything a fan of Shadowrun could've desired from the most recent installment into the Shadowrun games. But here are my thoughts and I didn't make it past my brother being geeked, but I am returning later (duty calls for now).

But the story was a bitter pill to swallow. You let me design and create my own character, one I could immerse myself into, yet the story is heavily scripted (in the literary sense). Suddenly I have a brother, my name is "Mike"? and then this brother dies and I don't give a whole damn, yet in the story my characters torn up and whatnot. I couldn't buy it.
Additionally, I've got to say, having script (literary) written on my behalf is another immersion breaker. What was a shining point for Dead Mans Switch and Dragonfall, is I'd choose my conversation peice, but that would be it, and the characters around me would react to it. It really made it feel comfortable that this was my character, but suddenly I'm having things said on my behalf. I'd be really happy if that was scrapped if I'm truly honest.
I fear this is going to be a story about avenging your brother by becoming a runner, yet I didn't give a damn that he died, and so I can't see myself becoming a runner because of it. That being said, starting the character as a Wage Slave was an interesting perspective to start from. But why decide for me that I've had no experience shadowrunning? Personally I've played both Dead Mans Switch and Dragonfall through, and it would be very safe to say that anyone else playing this mod will have as well.

The story needs to have direction and purpose, yet leave ambiguity for our characters to fit in comfortably, without being forced in. How they did it in Dragonfall is a grand example, the small amount of dialogue with the characters at the start let me get a good measure of Monika's character for to me to be saddened when she died.

The writting itself is really good! I liked Joshua's character being a bit of a scum bag. The loading screens too from what I've seen are good as well. The quality of the writing is truly good, I think the application needs to change.

Thanks for your time.
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
animarcity Dec 24, 2014 @ 7:18am 
That also really bothered me. I just finished Dragonfall which had maybe the best writing in any recent game and which really pulled of immersion and "every possible char you create fits in perfecdtly". And now here I go, create a troll with a chinese name and suddenly I have a human brother who calls me Mike? (Btw, does he do that if I create a female char too?) What also bothered me was the language (e.g. "Oh god!", "Jesus, what did you do!?"). It just doesn't feel like Shadowrun for me. However, starting as a wage slave seems cool (finally a plausible explanation why you even have to learn how to hold a pistol straight.) and from all the positive reviews it seems the gameplay is really good so I'll go with unlimited but for a moment the beginning of the story had me rather restart dragonfall instead.
#1
Stealthybon Dec 24, 2014 @ 9:52am 
I also have an issue with the railroading of the PC's backstory. It's not a deal breaking issue, but given that the mod is touted as a sandbox, having my character's backstory be decided for me is kinda immersion breaking.
Last edited by Stealthybon; Dec 24, 2014 @ 9:53am
#2
ominouswhooshing Dec 27, 2014 @ 4:08pm 
I second the complaint about the heavily scripted story elements, but my major gripe is that my character is referred to as "Emma". If the base game script can accomodate my chosen name, why can't this mod? I don't want to play as "Emma" or "Mike.".
#3
Eachna Dec 27, 2014 @ 5:02pm 
I also agree with disliking the railroaded backstory and forced name. It might be a bit more fluid to use the co-worker you're supposed to be having dinner with. On the way to dinner, you could stop at the tower and see him get killed, finding out he's a runner on his weekends. Then, you could swear revenge because you either care about him, because you're a badass in general, or out of fear/desperation for your life. Erik then knows him instead of your brother. That puts you in the same exact situation, with minimal changes to the scripted scenes, without forcing a history. The wage-slave idea is cool, it's a nice twist on the more usual trope of being an established runner.


Finally, you can't actually assume that people have played the original games. Because I knew this was like Neverwinter Nights (a framework for user-created content) I skipped those games entirely. Instead, I did a milk run mission to get down the mechanics and then jumped into this mod (based on the comments). I'm sure I'm not the only one. So, keep in mind that while you shouldn't hold hands, you can assume at least a few raw noobs :D.

#4
Bloonter Dec 27, 2014 @ 7:07pm 
Originally posted by gwen.morse:
Finally, you can't actually assume that people have played the original games. Because I knew this was like Neverwinter Nights (a framework for user-created content) I skipped those games entirely. Instead, I did a milk run mission to get down the mechanics and then jumped into this mod (based on the comments). I'm sure I'm not the only one. So, keep in mind that while you shouldn't hold hands, you can assume at least a few raw noobs :D.

After looking at some of the general comments, I realise it wasn't fair to make that generalisation, as a number of people have stated they aquired the game for this mod. Perhaps a difficulty setting or something at the start to distinguish if you're already familiar with the game and how it plays?
Although, why wouldn't you play the game anyway since it's bloody good? I mean, bloody bloody good.
#5
Eachna Dec 29, 2014 @ 1:37am 
I would think some more "[TUTORIAL]" tags (with noob info) in dialogue/interaction options would be a nice way to integrate extra info without forcing it on experienced players.

Also, as your fixer with a personal stake in the overarching story, Erik should give _WAAAY_ more help than he does.

He's a fixer who doesn't know more than 3 or 4 NPCs. Or where to sell lifted data. Or any runners for hire. Etc. How does he stay in business?

As for why skip the included game? Well...honestly...my experiences in the past with games included with modding frameworks hasn't been the best. They tend to skimp on story and mostly be (in effect) an extended tutorial on how to build a mod. I did decide to play Dragonfall for a bit and I'm pleasantly surprised I'm enjoying the story. I need one more big payoff to collect Alice's 50k. I could care less about the big picture, I'm drawn in by the quests and choices to make things better for my little community. Will the sim-addict ever come back to the real world? Is the meta-human shelter a front for something sinister or is it a Good Thing? Does the obese man in the coffee bar have a story or is he just window dressing? I don't know, but I do _care_. :D.

Still, player mods will be what keeps the game play-able.
#6
Southwind  [developer] Dec 29, 2014 @ 8:34am 
In future updates I plan on branching out the intro, where players can choose one of several more "generic" backgrounds, such as Wageslave (the current one), Veteran Runner, Ganger, Lonestar, etc. Witch each background granting special perks, and an alternate starting scene. The pimary story will remain the same, but key elements will be adapted to acknowledge the chosen background. Players will also be able to name their players (once I figure out how players can set Global String Variables from inside the game), or else the opening scenes will have to be chaged to a whole bunch of "Hey you" and "Hello there" instead of dropping names... But like I said, that's a future update, and there's already a lot on my plate.
#7
Bloonter Jan 2, 2015 @ 9:37am 
Originally posted by Southwind:
In future updates I plan on branching out the intro, where players can choose one of several more "generic" backgrounds, such as Wageslave (the current one), Veteran Runner, Ganger, Lonestar, etc. Witch each background granting special perks, and an alternate starting scene.

This has me incredibly excited for the future of the mod! On top of the brilliant mechanics I hear are in play this will truly make it an incredible and ver much Shadowrun experience! Bravo!
#8
g.t.gizra Jan 12, 2015 @ 12:39am 
Originally posted by TheHellOfItAll:
I second the complaint about the heavily scripted story elements, but my major gripe is that my character is referred to as "Emma". If the base game script can accomodate my chosen name, why can't this mod? I don't want to play as "Emma" or "Mike.".

Maybe it's just me but I used the character's real name of Emma as a basis for my street name the only hard part of my decision was did I want to be Lady Frost or Mistress Peel :)
#9
G. MacLeod Jan 12, 2015 @ 9:42am 
Originally posted by g.t.gizra:
Originally posted by TheHellOfItAll:
I second the complaint about the heavily scripted story elements, but my major gripe is that my character is referred to as "Emma". If the base game script can accomodate my chosen name, why can't this mod? I don't want to play as "Emma" or "Mike.".

Maybe it's just me but I used the character's real name of Emma as a basis for my street name the only hard part of my decision was did I want to be Lady Frost or Mistress Peel :)

The purpose of the forced name at the beginning, is that is who your character WAS before being dragged kicking and screaming into the shadows. Once you're in the shadows, then your character assumes the name you chose during character creation.

It wouldn't make sense in the beginning for your brother Joshua to refer to you by your shadowrun street name, considering you are not a shadowrunner... yet.

That being said, the current start of the story is just one possibility/choice out of many that according to the developer will be given to us once the option is released.

Keep in mind, this is a work in progress and not "finished". I appreciate Southwind (the developer) taking their time to do things the right way, rather than rushing buggy/untested stuff just for the sake of having something new; that would sully what so far has been/is a great community mod.

Have patience :)
#10
Bloonter Jan 12, 2015 @ 10:51am 
Originally posted by ShadowGoon:
Originally posted by g.t.gizra:

The purpose of the forced name at the beginning, is that is who your character WAS before being dragged kicking and screaming into the shadows. Once you're in the shadows, then your character assumes the name you chose during character creation.

It wouldn't make sense in the beginning for your brother Joshua to refer to you by your shadowrun street name, considering you are not a shadowrunner... yet.

That being said, the current start of the story is just one possibility/choice out of many that according to the developer will be given to us once the option is released.

Keep in mind, this is a work in progress and not "finished". I appreciate Southwind (the developer) taking their time to do things the right way, rather than rushing buggy/untested stuff just for the sake of having something new; that would sully what so far has been/is a great community mod.

Have patience :)

I understand why we're given "John Doe" like names, because yes, you're right we aren't runners yet. But why not have two name options, one when we start to let us get invested into our character further, because it's a game focused on MY character that I create. Then when we become a runner we have another choice to choose our runner name.

I wanted a discussion board to provide these thoughts and feelings of other players thusfar, because I feel it will help the process of the mod, by fans providing their thoughts on things. Then the mod can really reach the potential it deserves and hopefully will come of it. I don't want the author to rush it, so feedback now, prevents many changes later, I have full faith in the mod and it's author and the more time they takes, the better off everything will be.

While, I'm sure you're trying not to be, you sounded quite condescending. But hopefully, your reply might catch the attention of unaware players of the mod. Take care!
#11
JamesB192 Jan 13, 2015 @ 4:43am 
Having looked under the hood of SRU a bit and reading part of the editor wiki there does not seem to be a way to input arbitrary names into the game when it is played.
#12
Silverias Jan 13, 2015 @ 2:12pm 
Might just be easier to use some sort of nickname, having your friends calling you "Slick" and your boss calling you "Worker 466" or something.
#13
Bloonter Jan 13, 2015 @ 2:23pm 
Originally posted by Weyroc:
Might just be easier to use some sort of nickname, having your friends calling you "Slick" and your boss calling you "Worker 466" or something.

That's a bloody good idea actually.
#14
Kage Jan 17, 2015 @ 12:08am 
Originally posted by Southwind:
In future updates I plan on branching out the intro, where players can choose one of several more "generic" backgrounds, such as Wageslave (the current one), Veteran Runner, Ganger, Lonestar, etc. Witch each background granting special perks, and an alternate starting scene. The pimary story will remain the same, but key elements will be adapted to acknowledge the chosen background. Players will also be able to name their players (once I figure out how players can set Global String Variables from inside the game), or else the opening scenes will have to be chaged to a whole bunch of "Hey you" and "Hello there" instead of dropping names... But like I said, that's a future update, and there's already a lot on my plate.

Hey Southwind, one suggestion for setting up multiple opening scenes.

Start the game (opening scene) in the same bar as Eric. Start a conversation on map load (maybe with Eric), about how you ended up here. A couple of quick dialogue choices to assign a int to a story variables relating to backgrounds (1. Wageslave, 2. Lonestar etc). Then jump scene to a flash back to tell those early moments (brother's death etc) using those story variables to limit which dialogues come up, then snap back to Eric "well then, welcome to wyern's tooth I guess"


On Joshua being your brother, again with an opening dialogue with Eric player defends Joshua's character, Eric tells the player of one of Joshua's screw ups, and the player reponds "Hes adpoted..". (Complete avengers steal).

Really impressed with the UGC Sothwind, hope you continue development :)

o/
Last edited by Kage; Jan 17, 2015 @ 12:12am
#15
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