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tModLoader >  Workshop > GabsGoncs's Workshop > Magic Builder > Discussions
Magic Builder
Description Discussions13 Comments463 Change Notes
plzdont4get Aug 28, 2023 @ 11:58am
Balancing this great mod
First of all major kudos, this a very nifty mod, especially for those of us that have trouble building. Makes the average player's world look much nicer. The UI for building placement also works perfectly, good job. I hope you don't mind some feedback.

Now, it is because I love the idea of this mod so much and see so much potential in it that I really wish to see certain elements balanced, to the point where it feels like it could belong in the base game. To keep everyone happy these balance features could be configurable as well.
There are 3 points I have in mind, starting with the more important:

Hellevators
One of the important aspects of early progression is exploration of the underground and cavern layers, digging down until you reach the underworld. In my opinion it's also some of the most fun, brimming with those classic Terraria vibes. It's also a decision to make, do you take the time to dig a tunnel straight down, or find the fastest route through the caverns? So being able to bypass the entire process with 500 wood/whatever it costs from the NPC is unfortunate IMO.

One solution: require an (mostly) unbroken direct line free of solid blocks from top to bottom. That way you'd need to at least make a basic two tile wide hellevator before you can make it look nicer. Alternatively, gate the item behind hardmode, or require an item only obtainable from the underworld. I prefer the former solution as it feels more organic.

Space requirements
This goes especially for arenas placed underground, which take away most of the effort and expense of creating an underground arena or farm. Above ground arenas are fine because it isn't too difficult to place rows of platforms, so it's a fair time-saver. However I believe carving out a large area underground is meant to be a challenge, considering all the tools you have at your disposal like better pickaxes and various explosives. I don't think it should be as easy as one click of a button.

Solution: require ~70% to 80% free space (air or non-solid blocks) in the construction area. Even for underground houses I feel like carving out a place underground for your npcs to live is part of the fun.

Material requirements
So the houses come with furniture that normally requires valuable materials like gold, iron or silk. Some of the furniture is mostly useless (bathtubs) but some can be important to progression like beds, cooking pots, and candles (water candles).

This one's pretty minor, considering that the houses aren't too extravagant and probably wouldn't require much material in the first place, but on principle I think it would make it feel much more "immersive" and less "cheaty".

Vastly increase the cost (double or more) of houses and add crafting recipes to all of them. The recipe should require very roughly what raw materials you would need to make the respective house. So for example, a small house could require 50 wood, 50 stone, 5 glass, 10 iron bars, and 5 silk. Perhaps remove some of the more expensive furniture that could mess with progression, and let the player craft them on their own.

I know this won't be to everyone's liking and frankly isn't as important, but the option could be there to take it that final step to feeling "legit" and close the door against exploits.

I will still be using this mod as it is easy to self-impose these rules on oneself, but I'd be really happy to see them added as options. Thanks for reading.
Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Venomous Scrimbly Aug 28, 2023 @ 8:01pm 
Also, the housebearer probably shouldn't sell Hallow structures in prehardmode, since it allows you to get Pearlwood & Pearlstone early.
#1
GabsGoncs  [developer] Aug 28, 2023 @ 11:56pm 
2
Thank you so much for your feedback! I was definitely not thinking enough about balancing when making this, so right now it looks much more like a cheat than a helper. I will be focusing on balancing next update, my main goal is to make things just as hard as it would be by regular builds + extra cost to offset how easy it can be.

I really like the idea of the hellevator requiring items from hell, that would encourage exploration and not kill the initial getting to hell phase that is so important in the game.

Making the arena require empty space underground is also very interesting, also ensures that the player is not going to delete important loot or other content that may be there.

The NPC is selling too many items right now with all the variations, makes it that I can't add many more structures, so I will make it so that the item versions are interchangeable (Forest box + Cactus = Desert box, or something like this) in workbenches, so that the NPC only has to sell 1 version of things.

I am a game designer myself so I understand the importance of difficulty on things, mods that make the game feel like a cheat can be nice, but it will quickly kill the joy of a play without you even noticing, so yes I will definitely be upping prices by a lot, encouraging players to craft the homes instead of just insta buying.

Again, thank you for all the comments and I wil hopefully be able to implement most of these on the next few days :D
#2
plzdont4get Aug 29, 2023 @ 4:27am 
I'm very grateful that you're taking feedback into account, and also glad you agree on the importance of challenging the player for a good experience. Looking forward to the updates. :)
#3
Aimy Aug 29, 2023 @ 11:02am 
This would be MAJOR!! i love magic builder and use it alot because i have creativity to make 1 nice major base during a world and then i run out so all my npcs just live in shoeboxes if not for your great mod

BUT if you actually balanced the cost/requirements to make it "not cheaty" i would be over the moon with joy! its sounds fantastic i love a challenge but i also love having my world look semi nice and if you do these changes it can be possible! :D <3
#4
Paroe Aug 31, 2023 @ 3:02am 
If these "balancing" things were to be implemented, it would defeat the purpose of them. Why would i use this mod (which has much nicer things) that require me to do most of the work to begin with when fargos and similar mods (which this mod doesnt play nice with) doesnt? Mods like this are chosen for convenience.

Maybe add a config option instead of an overall balance change, so people who need to feel challenged while using a pre-fab construction mod like this can choose it? (Or vice versa, i suppose).
#5
Venomous Scrimbly Aug 31, 2023 @ 3:05am 
Originally posted by Paroe:
If these "balancing" things were to be implemented, it would defeat the purpose of them. Why would i use this mod (which has much nicer things) that require me to do most of the work to begin with when fargos and similar mods (which this mod doesnt play nice with) doesnt? Mods like this are chosen for convenience.

Maybe add a config option instead of an overall balance change, so people who need to feel challenged while using a pre-fab construction mod like this can choose it? (Or vice versa, i suppose).
I mean, there's a reason they suggested making these just config options. Also, I'd say this mod would still be more convenient for people who are lazy or really bad at building (ie. most people who get the mod).
Last edited by Venomous Scrimbly; Aug 31, 2023 @ 3:05am
#6
Aimy Aug 31, 2023 @ 5:18pm 
I concur these balancing changes (i LOVE the idea of them) should DEFINETLY be a toggle / config option and not a standard
#7
Venomous Scrimbly Sep 1, 2023 @ 1:05am 
Originally posted by Aimy <3:
I concur these balancing changes (i LOVE the idea of them) should DEFINETLY be a toggle / config option and not a standard
Yeah, I agree
#8
Mickmane Sep 1, 2023 @ 6:18am 
Originally posted by plzdont4get:
First of all major kudos, this a very nifty mod, especially for those of us that have trouble building. Makes the average player's world look much nicer. The UI for building placement also works perfectly, good job. I hope you don't mind some feedback.

I have to agree, such a great mod!

Originally posted by plzdont4get:
Hellevators
One solution: require an (mostly) unbroken direct line free of solid blocks from top to bottom. That way you'd need to at least make a basic two tile wide hellevator before you can make it look nicer. Alternatively, gate the item behind hardmode, or require an item only obtainable from the underworld. I prefer the former solution as it feels more organic.

My first thought was to require something from the Underworld before even reading your two solutions. I don't like stuff locked behind hardmode. I often muck about before moving on, even when I could easily beat the next boss.

Originally posted by plzdont4get:
Space requirements
Solution: require ~70% to 80% free space (air or non-solid blocks) in the construction area. Even for underground houses I feel like carving out a place underground for your npcs to live is part of the fun.

Maybe you think that fun. I like being able to place a house under my arena (even inside the blocks I placed myself), and don't enjoy carving out places underground. I've carved out enough blocks in over 3000 hours Terraria!

I'm all for options, settings that can be set in the server, though. So you can do what you like on your world, and I what I like on mine. :)

Originally posted by plzdont4get:
Material requirements
Vastly increase the cost (double or more) of houses and add crafting recipes to all of them. The recipe should require very roughly what raw materials you would need to make the respective house. So for example, a small house could require 50 wood, 50 stone, 5 glass, 10 iron bars, and 5 silk. Perhaps remove some of the more expensive furniture that could mess with progression, and let the player craft them on their own.

Yeah, but. :) Please don't remove any furniture. And please make it an option: Realistic cost versus Lazy cost. :)

Maybe an option for the gold cost, too.

Originally posted by plzdont4get:
I know this won't be to everyone's liking and frankly isn't as important, but the option could be there to take it that final step to feeling "legit" and close the door against exploits.

I will still be using this mod as it is easy to self-impose these rules on oneself, but I'd be really happy to see them added as options. Thanks for reading.

Yay for options. :)
#9
Mickmane Sep 1, 2023 @ 6:53am 
Originally posted by GabsGoncs:
Making the arena require empty space underground is also very interesting, also ensures that the player is not going to delete important loot or other content that may be there.

That's my main worry; what does the mod remove without telling me? Do chests stay? (Please make them stay, no matter where they are.) Is other loot, like statues, just removed? Or does it drop?

In Hellevators, could you please just have the loot drop in the closed bottom, so it doesn't land in lava?

I'd also like to be able to tweak the arena size. I've got the spawn distances in a notes file for ages, and still go by that when I build my own.

Horizontal, monsters spawn between 84 and 62 blocks distance, vertical between 47 and 35 blocks. (And I mark the two areas with platforms, and walls inside the inner non-spawn-space.) For feet (with accessory information):

168+168=336 (total width, plus spot to stand on, 6 feet) 342 feet
94+94=188 (plus one spot to stand on, 2 feet) 190 feet

(I first thought I'd miscalculated, but I meant it that way; 3 blocks wide spot to stand on (2 would be sufficient, but I like an odd number in the center), 1 block height. Added to the total arena size.

Only exception I make is old one's army space, where I have 2x 100 blocks (100 on either side), paved with conveyor belts as soon as I have them, plus 5 for the crystal stand, and 2 extra on either side of that. And at the edge, vertical, 10 to 20 blocks, to make sure portal ends up inside my designated space.

Originally posted by GabsGoncs:
The NPC is selling too many items right now with all the variations, makes it that I can't add many more structures, so I will make it so that the item versions are interchangeable (Forest box + Cactus = Desert box, or something like this) in workbenches, so that the NPC only has to sell 1 version of things.

Other modders add different shops to their NPCs, that you can switch between. Alchemy NPC Lite for example has the Architect who sells from 8 or 9 different shops, all lamps, early blocks, furniture,...

AlchemistNPC Lite 
A Workshop Item for tModLoader
By: Gregg
This mod adds 7 NPCs (Alchemist, Brewer, Jeweler, Young Brewer, Operator, Architect and Musician), who sell potions, materials and some other stuff. New combinations of potions are sold by the Young Brewer.

You could have a look at that and see how they do it. :)

Originally posted by GabsGoncs:
I am a game designer myself so I understand the importance of difficulty on things, mods that make the game feel like a cheat can be nice, but it will quickly kill the joy of a play without you even noticing, so yes I will definitely be upping prices by a lot, encouraging players to craft the homes instead of just insta buying.

/me looks at 9999 replicated platinum.
That's fine by me! ;P

Maybe add an option to make the items not researchable. I don't feel the need for myself here, but I know I wanted just that option for the Weapon Enchantments mod. (I'm 51, well old enough to know what makes something lame and reduces the fun for me, and what doesn't. :) )

Originally posted by GabsGoncs:
Again, thank you for all the comments and I wil hopefully be able to implement most of these on the next few days :D

Thanks for taking in feedback. And thanks for this great mod!

I noticed that even the left and right facing versions of buildings are not just mirror images. And you put books on the piano! Soo much attention to detail. :)

I would like some tool to make a building a mirror image though, for when I want just that. :)

Thanks! :)
#10
MinecraftedMario Dec 21, 2023 @ 4:45am 
Originally posted by GabsGoncs:
Thank you so much for your feedback! I was definitely not thinking enough about balancing when making this, so right now it looks much more like a cheat than a helper. I will be focusing on balancing next update, my main goal is to make things just as hard as it would be by regular builds + extra cost to offset how easy it can be.

I really like the idea of the hellevator requiring items from hell, that would encourage exploration and not kill the initial getting to hell phase that is so important in the game.

Making the arena require empty space underground is also very interesting, also ensures that the player is not going to delete important loot or other content that may be there.

The NPC is selling too many items right now with all the variations, makes it that I can't add many more structures, so I will make it so that the item versions are interchangeable (Forest box + Cactus = Desert box, or something like this) in workbenches, so that the NPC only has to sell 1 version of things.

I am a game designer myself so I understand the importance of difficulty on things, mods that make the game feel like a cheat can be nice, but it will quickly kill the joy of a play without you even noticing, so yes I will definitely be upping prices by a lot, encouraging players to craft the homes instead of just insta buying.

Again, thank you for all the comments and I wil hopefully be able to implement most of these on the next few days :D
about your concerns about the npc selling too much: there is a mod called "shop expander", adding pages to the shop so it doesnt overfill. if you add more items the npc could sell, then you could make shop expander a requirement
#11
｡○͘ Apr 10, 2024 @ 5:12pm 
Originally posted by plzdont4get:
Material requirements
So the houses come with furniture that normally requires valuable materials like gold, iron or silk. Some of the furniture is mostly useless (bathtubs) but some can be important to progression like beds, cooking pots, and candles (water candles).

This one's pretty minor, considering that the houses aren't too extravagant and probably wouldn't require much material in the first place, but on principle I think it would make it feel much more "immersive" and less "cheaty".

Vastly increase the cost (double or more) of houses and add crafting recipes to all of them. The recipe should require very roughly what raw materials you would need to make the respective house. So for example, a small house could require 50 wood, 50 stone, 5 glass, 10 iron bars, and 5 silk. Perhaps remove some of the more expensive furniture that could mess with progression, and let the player craft them on their own.

definitely agree and think furniture should be stripped down to cheap tables, chairs, lighting and have the materials added to the house recipe. imo barebones-but-pretty is the sweetspot where people too lazy to house NPCs probably won't care if it's densely decorated (as long as it looks nice), people who want it to be fully detailed will have their own creative ideas, and people who want to live in it will have space to put down important stuff. Good walls are usually the most visually impactful aspect of a build
#12
Lolzsicka Dec 13, 2024 @ 5:39am 
add a structure to act as a prebuilt base containing a work bench, anvil, furnace, and some chests. this base should also be a bit bigger than the large house, so it'd be expensive to craft but worth it for a good-looking base in the end
#13
Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
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