2nd boss is just skill issue tbh, kill the fire guys faster. the spikes arent even hard bc the game literally shows you where they come out of the ground. all u need to do to avoid the wood guys is run in a circle around the tree and sometimes shoot then with ur secondary

first guy just focus the boss lol, the enemies are only melee guys so u can just run from them, the boss knocks u far as ♥♥♥♥ away, and even if he doesnt u can just tag him and he'll still slow down as if he was unarmored. also just look away from the chickens lmao

I think the first boss fight would benefit from having a more traditional boss fight format.
Shoot electrical box > Light up boss > boss goes asleep > kill his goons > wake up > to start
the goons could get stronger and stronger, but specifically it should be either a survival period or a set number of "goons" I don't like that there's people constantly attacking you and respawning while you're trying to fight the boss.

I'm surprised anyone is having trouble with either boss... I find them to be the easiest part of the map so far. I've not really had any fps drops during any of the fights so I can't really comment on that myself, but the fights themselves are not very difficult if performance issues were not a concern.

The first boss has a lack of attacks with all the minions being melee except for the chickens which can be one-shot, and when you damage the boss enough for him to teleport and spawn enemies, just sit in a corner and deal with them as they approach. If they get too close, hide your weapon and make distance then repeat. You're most likely just getting too close to the boss without actually shooting him, since he isn't actually that fast while you attack him with his shield down and using any weapon generally works. The chickens are only an issue if you are running around in the middle of the map and you have let too many spawn, otherwise use your pistol (or primary if it's an smg/rifle) to clear them since they're all one shot. The barrels around the map can also be used to get rid of a lot of chickens at once.

The second boss honestly feels even easier than the first boss, all you have to do is kill each enemy that spawns at the very start before the tree begins attacking. It's even easier when you jump onto one of the many boxes in the fight as it makes it really easy to spot all of the enemies before the main boss fight. If you're struggling to kill the enemies at the start and have issues with molotov enemies during the main fight, you're most likely just not doing enough damage I guess. Never struggled with the fight in either solo or multiplayer.

If the performance issues were sorted out, I'd honestly be more interested in the bosses getting reworked/buffed with some changes to make the fights more interesting and challenging. I do feel like the first boss should probably follow the sort of boss fight format Preston mentioned mostly for consistency. I genuinely think that the molotov enemies during the second "chapter" are more threatening than the boss fights with how many molotovs get spammed in certain rooms currently.

Originally posted by 4BDN:

the spikes arent even hard bc the game literally shows you where they come out of the ground. all u need to do to avoid the wood guys is run in a circle around the tree and sometimes shoot then with ur secondary

Oh yeah, the game shows you where the spikes are going to show up... exactly one second before they pop up. You'd have to have some crazy reaction time to be able to spot where the soil shows up, not already be in it (because you're stuck if you are, which happens often to me bc I have to run away from the tree guys) and properly avoid them while also dealing with the tree enemies.
It's a little too much overall. Trying to divert attention between the minions and the tree itself while also avoiding the spike attack is a lot to handle and I hope it gets tuned down a bit because every run that's made it that far solo has died there.

Originally posted by Preston:

I think the first boss fight would benefit from having a more traditional boss fight format.
Shoot electrical box > Light up boss > boss goes asleep > kill his goons > wake up > to start
the goons could get stronger and stronger, but specifically it should be either a survival period or a set number of "goons" I don't like that there's people constantly attacking you and respawning while you're trying to fight the boss.

I agree. It was one of my first thoughts when playing the boss for the first time. It's kinda weird how the minions spawn in and you get maybe a few seconds without the boss existing before they teleport right next to you... Fight would be much more understandable with clear phases.

Originally posted by Holo:

The chickens are only an issue if you are running around in the middle of the map and you have let too many spawn

This wording is funny to me. Do they not just spawn constantly regardless of what I'm doing? Also, what else am I supposed to do when the boss runs as fast as I do while also spawning minions that I have to avoid? I find that even stopping for long enough to take out the Scarecrow enemies brings me to death's door.
I've beaten the first fight several times, but there are great runs I've had that died due to spawning in multiple scarecrows I couldn't deal with.

Originally posted by Holo:

I genuinely think that the molotov enemies during the second "chapter" are more threatening than the boss fights with how many molotovs get spammed in certain rooms currently.

This I can agree with, at least as long as we disregard the spike attack. The molotov enemies are too strong in this mod overall, but especially in this boss fight. Sometimes you enter the room and there are several Heavy Attackers spamming molotovs that you have to worry about while also getting shot at by the gun enemies...
And then you defeat them all, likely at low health, only to die to the spike attack because it glues you to it with no opportunity for skillfully dodging it, unlike in a game like Dead Cells. When I get hit by the spikes, it's all sheer dumb luck.

Originally posted by AigisLover:

Originally posted by Holo:

The chickens are only an issue if you are running around in the middle of the map and you have let too many spawn

This wording is funny to me. Do they not just spawn constantly regardless of what I'm doing? Also, what else am I supposed to do when the boss runs as fast as I do while also spawning minions that I have to avoid? I find that even stopping for long enough to take out the Scarecrow enemies brings me to death's door.
I've beaten the first fight several times, but there are great runs I've had that died due to spawning in multiple scarecrows I couldn't deal with.

Originally posted by Holo:

I genuinely think that the molotov enemies during the second "chapter" are more threatening than the boss fights with how many molotovs get spammed in certain rooms currently.

This I can agree with, at least as long as we disregard the spike attack. The molotov enemies are too strong in this mod overall, but especially in this boss fight. Sometimes you enter the room and there are several Heavy Attackers spamming molotovs that you have to worry about while also getting shot at by the gun enemies...
And then you defeat them all, likely at low health, only to die to the spike attack because it glues you to it with no opportunity for skillfully dodging it, unlike in a game like Dead Cells. When I get hit by the spikes, it's all sheer dumb luck.

I should have worded that a little better, but what I meant is that the chickens only really get to you and damage you if you're running around in the middle of the map rather than some of the outer edges. They do spawn regardless of where you are or what you are doing, but they don't do a whole lot of damage unless you run into a load of them and let them explode (which would only happen if you are around the middle and linger around there where they spawn a lot closer to each other). The straw guys honestly shouldn't be much of an issue as long as you have at least one weapon (either primary or secondary) that can shoot multiple times quickly to kill them. I don't think they respawn until you take down another 25% of the boss' health, so you can focus them first if you're really struggling and just avoid the boss by making enough distance (really, he isn't actually that fast and if he hits you it gives you a fair amount of distance away from him). The boss can even get stuck against objects sometimes so that could work from time to time.

As for the spike attack in the second fight, I rarely have an issue with it since if you stand close to the edge of the arena (obviously not the very edge to avoid the special attack), I find it is much easier to avoid the attack completely. It also creates a fair amount of distance from the enemies spawned by damaging the tree branches so it generally makes it easier to kill them before they reach you. Personally the only times I randomly get caught in the spikes is when I am too close to the tree and don't have enough time to react. I'm not too sure what you mean by the molotov enemies being especially strong in the boss fight since all the enemies at the start of the boss fight spawn one by one rather than spawning all of them at once so you get a fair amount of time to kill them before too many spawn and overrun you. With the boxes around the map or the spy glasses card you can spot the enemies as they spawn into the arena and kill them pretty quickly, and with the molotov dudes you just need to keep moving and they're no threat since you have a lot of space in the arena compared to the claustrophobic rooms filled with molotov enemies. The molotov enemies in the arena also struggle to hit you consistently if you are on top of any of the boxes.

I assume by "Sometimes you enter the room and there are several Heavy Attackers spamming molotovs that you have to worry about while also getting shot at by the gun enemies" you mean regular rooms before the bossfight, since I'm pretty sure there aren't any other ranged attackers in the boss fight other than molotovs, and they don't all spawn in at the same time.

Also I feel like maybe you need to focus on kiting enemies a little better? If you're getting hit by the boss or the straw men in the first fight frequently, make some distance. If the boss is faster than you, then you're holding out a heavy weapon or something because if you have your fists out you can outrun him especially if you run/jump around the trees/objects to stop him from having a direct path towards you.

"Heavy Attackers" is terminology I took from the Co-Op Strike and Guardian maps by Valve, they're the heavily armored enemies in this mod with huge HP pools that spam molotovs. Not to be confused with the Hawaiian Shirt molotov guys, I'm talking about the SWAT vest guys lol.

After defeating the first wave or two of enemy spawns in the Second Boss Fight, it spawns in a boatload of enemies including molotov spammers. That's when I get overwhelmed. Boxes don't really help much traditionally since it's not too hard for them to molotov the box anyways and it leaves you exposed. I'll try that next run that I get far enough, but it seems counterintuitive at best.
Issue with "just move around a lot" is the accuracy penalty for constantly moving. Even running around with fists then switching to a primary seems iffy at best since you'll eventually have to reload, which takes a good amount of time, leaving you vulnerable. And the more damage you take in a boss fight, the harder it is to win due to annoying minions that deal too much damage to you and eventually bodyblock you in an impossible to escape situation.

I just think minion waves should be separated better and/or stimpacks should be offered in the fights via a card of some kind perhaps, because elsewise it's too easy to rack up a lot of damage very fast due to minor mistakes. I feel like I can't even blink in them because of how there's no time to rest in them, which sucks when the fights last 5-15 minutes

The more cards you unlock the easier these fights get. Even if you dont have anything unlocked the boss fights are trivialized by simply running without a weapon in hand for the extra movement speed (ofc melee enemies are going to outrun you if you have a weapon out). You can kite the adds no problem. Molotov spam is super easy to hard counter by sitting in a smoke, even better you can throw a TA nade and shoot enemies trough it. The game gives you so much utility to use in these fights. Id say they actually need to be harder but they are early game fights in the grand scheme of things so they're fine imo.

Originally posted by HunterAce:

The more cards you unlock the easier these fights get. Even if you dont have anything unlocked the boss fights are trivialized by simply running without a weapon in hand for the extra movement speed (ofc melee enemies are going to outrun you if you have a weapon out). You can kite the adds no problem. Molotov spam is super easy to hard counter by sitting in a smoke, even better you can throw a TA nade and shoot enemies trough it. The game gives you so much utility to use in these fights. Id say they actually need to be harder but they are early game fights in the grand scheme of things so they're fine imo.

Smoke grenades are practically useless when they hardly hinder the enemies' sitelines of you but hinder your sitelines of them...

Originally posted by AigisLover:

Originally posted by HunterAce:

The more cards you unlock the easier these fights get. Even if you dont have anything unlocked the boss fights are trivialized by simply running without a weapon in hand for the extra movement speed (ofc melee enemies are going to outrun you if you have a weapon out). You can kite the adds no problem. Molotov spam is super easy to hard counter by sitting in a smoke, even better you can throw a TA nade and shoot enemies trough it. The game gives you so much utility to use in these fights. Id say they actually need to be harder but they are early game fights in the grand scheme of things so they're fine imo.

Smoke grenades are practically useless when they hardly hinder the enemies' sitelines of you but hinder your sitelines of them...

Thats not even remotely close to being true. If you are running any build with low tech or low hp they actually become vital for survival later on. Smoke grenades block line of site and Molotov's cant go off in / slightly around them...

Finally got a run good enough to beat the second boss, you're right, using Smokes helps a TON

...my game crashed once I beat it lmao

Originally posted by AigisLover:

Originally posted by 4BDN:

the spikes arent even hard bc the game literally shows you where they come out of the ground. all u need to do to avoid the wood guys is run in a circle around the tree and sometimes shoot then with ur secondary

Oh yeah, the game shows you where the spikes are going to show up... exactly one second before they pop up. You'd have to have some crazy reaction time to be able to spot where the soil shows up, not already be in it (because you're stuck if you are, which happens often to me bc I have to run away from the tree guys) and properly avoid them while also dealing with the tree enemies.
It's a little too much overall. Trying to divert attention between the minions and the tree itself while also avoiding the spike attack is a lot to handle and I hope it gets tuned down a bit because every run that's made it that far solo has died there.

i almost never even have the minions close to me, idk what ur doing that ur getting killed by them lmao

just copy my strat tbh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPtC-aKtyXY

I personally find the second boss fight way easier than the first one. For #1 i needed several attempts for my first win. After that my biggest problem was getting mobbed in small level 2 areas. Boss #2 went down first try, no issues.

FPS can be a ♥♥♥♥♥ sometimes tho