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Europa Universalis IV >  Workshop > [M&T] Gigau's Workshop > MEIOU and Taxes v3.0 > Discussions
MEIOU and Taxes v3.0
Description Discussions41 Comments793 Change Notes
kaiserrobertiii Jan 20, 2022 @ 10:36pm
China questions
Noooo my saved game, won't load with new update :). Don't worry, always worth it, keep it up.

Overview:
Zhou->Great Zhou. Confucian/Shanxi*** whatever the religion name is :). Managed to conquer all of Asia except Anatolia by 1700. Rome managed to restore itself across all of Greece and Anatolia without any intervention by me, couldn't bring myself to take it from them either :). Awesome game.

Issue #1: Despite having Confucian state religion, it seemed no matter what policies I selected affecting tolerances, Mahayana was making slow gains against my Confucian pops. In addition, attempts to use missionaries to manually convert Mahayana provinces seemed to possibly bug out and reset the province and/or neighboring provinces from majority Confucian to about 90-95% Mahayana.
Is China's Confucianism being overrun by Mahayana as intended? Is there a way to avoid it? Would I be better off not trying missionaries and just let Confucianism slowly decline?
Will this have been resolved by the recent changes to religion in your latest patch?



Issue #2: Institutions don't seem to spread much. Columbian Exports spread in an expected way and I was able to embrace it eventually. I was unable to embrace any other institution. They would never spread to my provinces (or outside of European nations at all) even after I pushed so far west that I picked up a province with them (around Astrakhan). In that province, the ones which had made progress there started to decline within the province. I had innovative ideas and I believe others to increase institution spread rate, but it didn't help.
Am I missing something?

Thanks!
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Showing 1-4 of 4 comments
Aulacopleura humilis Jan 26, 2022 @ 8:13pm 
Yeah, check M&T wiki for your second question; specifically you will need commercialisation for whatever institution you want to embrace aside from Coloumbian exports. As for the Confucian religion, the case is quite complex. Dei Gratia will re-calculate the religious minorities in a province after your missionary converts it. Therefore it's not bugging out. You shouldn't expect to overrun Buddhism in China with Confucianism, because Confucianism has a -1 true faith tolerance. {Resembling the fact that Confucianism is a form of moral teaching practiced primarily by entrees of the 科举 exam, it is not a popular religion and the head church of Confucianism in 曲阜 hardly has influence over Confucian followers. Here you must realise that Confucianism is, in essence, a derived version of 周礼, a set of ceremonial and moral codes that defines no deity. It then has no subject of worship and is not strictly a religion. It actually opposes a spiritual society and is a secular moral belief in itself. Aside from Confucianism, Chinese emperors also utilise a belief in Heaven and Earth, which had long since blended with Shenxianite superstitions and Confucian/Buddhist morals to produce a highly politicised framework of concepts that provides legitimacy and moral guidance for the imperial bureaucracy to rule 中国. Of course, by the end of the imperial period, much of this framework gave away to rational thinking and eventually slowly towed the Mandate of Heaven off its throne.}
#1
[M&T] Gigau  [developer] Feb 3, 2022 @ 11:47pm 
I'll respond on the first question (especially as i'm the one working on religions). Basically, that is still a work in progress. Especially as i'm still working on Western Christian stuff for the moment. But i'll add, as soon as possible, something to fix that. You shouldn't be losing Confucian elites... but you shouldn't be able to convert your other minorities either.
#2
kaiserrobertiii Feb 8, 2022 @ 7:17pm 
Thanks both.

I started a Song game, Mahayana, religion seems better in the patch, I'll have to try a Confucian tag again later.

The institutions still seem pretty difficult to manage as China. I've been trying to figure out how to get my commercial situation in a state that would allow commercialism to spread, trying to give the merchants more power at the expense of the aristocrats etc.

3rd new point :) (also China-related)
Victim of expeditions
I stay about 5 techs behind the western powers, with the institution issues above. Controlling all of Asia means I can easily crush them in wars, only needing about a 2 to 1 ratio in troops to consistently win battles. France, Castille, Portugal, Flanders, Aragon, and England all continuously pick away my coastal provinces faster than I can threaten war to get them back, so I have to actually declare and fight out re-conquests, and re-core anything that was a territory (like in India, which can cost a lot of admin points).
I feel like it's a little too easy and a little too frequent for Europeans to push themselves into a great non-European empire, even in the early 1600's.
Their range also seems extreme, I push them completely out of everything east of Africa and they're automatically picking up my ports on the gulf of Thailand, the spice islands, and Polynesia (as well as India, Arabia, Madagascar, etc.).
#3
[M&T] Gigau  [developer] Feb 9, 2022 @ 1:40am 
This is valid criticism, and one on which there are ongoing discussions in the team. There are some ideas to mitigate it, but current state is already a bit better - few alphas ago OP would be loosing core China provinces, not possessions in the rest of Asia.

- One is to raise province score range from population, it caps very early.
- Second is to heavily de-prioritise provinces owned by great powers in the province auto selection step (like we prioritize natural features provs).

Stay tuned ;-)
#4
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