Might be nice to have a 'male presence' precept to round things out and for parity sake. Or adjust the precept to a more generic gender precept akin to bigotry which uses a scale of 1 to -1 instead of 1 to 0 as the female precept does now. So a 1 would be essential women presence and -1 would be essential male presence.

Originally posted by Slyuxx:

Might be nice to have a 'male presence' precept to round things out and for parity sake.

Thought about that a while back. Then I realized that male presence is pretty much already necessary since the game forces you to keep them around for defense with this mod installed.
The female presence precept is the counterbalance to this. Going too far in either direction punishes you in different ways, which embeds in the gameplay loop the fact that men and women need each other in different ways.

Is there a way to disable the 'female presence' mood buff? I've got two women in my three person colony, and my one dude is getting hit with three seperate buffs and gaining 37 mood despite being basically limbless, bed ridden, and on death's door

Originally posted by Professor Popoff:

Is there a way to disable the 'female presence' mood buff? I've got two women in my three person colony, and my one dude is getting hit with three seperate buffs and gaining 37 mood despite being basically limbless, bed ridden, and on death's door

That's a bug, only one moodlet should apply, we are already working on it

Originally posted by Professor Popoff:

my one dude is getting hit with three seperate buffs

The moodlet duplication issue is fixed with the new update. It was a bug caused by adding the mod mid-game

Originally posted by CitizenKanye:

Originally posted by Slyuxx:

Might be nice to have a 'male presence' precept to round things out and for parity sake.

Thought about that a while back. Then I realized that male presence is pretty much already necessary since the game forces you to keep them around for defense with this mod installed.

Such a decision is at least controversial, because the role-playing deteriorates this way. Men need women, and women need men - this is the balance. Reducing this great topic to a practical solution is a petty attitude.

It would be fun if there were two independent settings that allow men to determine how much they want to see women in their settlement, and vice versa, how much women are happy with the presence of men.

And negative values should be added to introduce sexual intolerance into the game. So it will be possible to create a monastery, male or female. The difficulties that will arise in front of the player should not be afraid.

It would be more logical if for the prisoners and for the slaves, the choice of the mod function was controlled by two different settings. Slaves are also members of the collective who participate in public life. And the prisoners are in prison and have no information about what is happening in the settlement.

Female render scaling is something I personally would really like. Perhaps limited to Thin and default Female body types... unless it can be done dynamically to pawns of a specified gender as a whole; in which case any female pawn would be rendered at 80%-90% scale (where men are 100% scale).

As @Macropod puts it, while yes both genders are needed that does not exclude the need for such precepts. For example I often have at least a 2-1 Female to Male ratio in my colonies as I play Rimworld for in a less combat-required style, often relying on automated defenses and good relations to get me through the day. So having better precept parity and more customization would make for more diverse colonies. In this way the precepts allow one to better decide how they want to play the game. Note that I am only referring to moodlets and relations here; all other gender related changes are not of note and I, as of writing, do not think nor mind them remaining as they are.

Well, would it be possible to add female thoughts on being defended/ guarded by their men? Like a debuff for Misandrists? Maybe a trait baring a postive buff too?

And if by all means, considering your plans to restrict clothing by gender, could this also be applied to Ideo precepts, which would be able to bar women/ men from certain roles because of their gender?

I got a few more ideas, but these are ones I can give right away.

Originally posted by Macropod:

It would be more logical if for the prisoners and for the slaves, the choice of the mod function was controlled by two different settings.

Point taken. I think the prisoners don't make sense to be affected at all. So the option will be changed to only deal with slaves

Originally posted by Slyuxx:

while yes both genders are needed that does not exclude the need for such precepts. For example I often have at least a 2-1 Female to Male ratio in my colonies as I play Rimworld for in a less combat-required style, often relying on automated defenses and good relations to get me through the day. So having better precept parity and more customization would make for more diverse colonies. In this way the precepts allow one to better decide how they want to play the game.

Originally posted by beaujet:

Well, would it be possible to add female thoughts on being defended/ guarded by their men? Like a debuff for Misandrists? Maybe a trait baring a postive buff too?

I get this, which is why I want to add many more features to make it more in-depth. The reason why I will hold off on making a male presence moodlet similar to the female presence one is because it clashes with the core idea of the mod that each gender should get unique mechanics, not just a copy pasted version of what the other is getting. That's the reason why there's no male hediff. That's the reason why the raid slider doesn't allow 100% female raids. It's not an equal game. Each side gets its own unique features.

Originally posted by beaujet:

considering your plans to restrict clothing by gender, could this also be applied to Ideo precepts, which would be able to bar women/ men from certain roles because of their gender?

Will consider it

Originally posted by CitizenKanye:

The reason why I will hold off on making a male presence moodlet similar to the female presence one is because it clashes with the core idea of the mod that each gender should get unique mechanics, not just a copy pasted version of what the other is getting.

Thus, it turns out that only men can be worried about the presence of women, and women are always and necessarily indifferent to men. This is weird.
A unique mechanic for a specific game could be obtained by choosing the appropriate commandments.

And I would also like to see the commandments that give a negative attitude. Imagine that a male settler got into a convent, where the presence of men is not welcome, and he likes the large number of women very much. What a drama it would be!

Originally posted by Macropod:

And I would also like to see the commandments that give a negative attitude. Imagine that a male settler got into a convent, where the presence of men is not welcome, and he likes the large number of women very much. What a drama it would be!

The storytelling potential is definitely there. But I prefer to think over a feature before I decide I'm going to add it in. If I find a way to do it that is both clever and makes sense gameplay-wise then I have no problem including it.

Hey, I know it was discussed already, but I have a few words to add to the topic. Why not exlude "Appreciated" setting from Male Supremacy-only and let us choose in most situations at least between "Desired" and "Appreciated"?

I think it makes sense, especially in heavily modifed ideoligions, that don't include Male Supremacy. Imagine you live in a industrialist cthulhu cult death worshippers colony (or whatever). You have A LOT more to care about than some women. It doesn't mean, that you don't want their presence, but it's hidden deeper inside your mind, thus "Appreciated", not "Desired". I hope you get the point.

It is a very mild change in code, and I think it barely affects balance, but gives a lot more to immersion. Finally, you can use it as some kind of placeholder until you "find a way to do it that is both clever and makes sense gameplay-wise", because as for now it's quite dubious that EVERYBODY besides Male Supremacy DESIRE women presence.

Originally posted by Interloper:

Why not exlude "Appreciated" setting from Male Supremacy-only and let us choose in most situations at least between "Desired" and "Appreciated"?

There are numerous reasons why I wouldn't do this. For one it would upset the mod's balance and completely disincentivize recruiting women. Secondly it would remove a unique feature from the supremacy memes, which they are already lacking and which was the mod's point to begin with. Thirdly I don't believe there are many actual societies that can exist without the desire for the presence of women.

Since I get where you're coming from my suggestion would be to get one of those mods that unlocks the maximum meme cap, which I think VIE memes and structures is unplayable without anyway. Otherwise you can use dev mode to force the precept if you want to override the mod's balance

Think of it like this: in the general case this mod is supposed to make women and men the yin and yang of colonies. The goal is to make you feel the consequences of the absence of either sex. Male and Fem Sup are just there to allow you to play with that

Originally posted by CitizenKanye:

There are numerous reasons why I wouldn't do this. For one it would upset the mod's balance and completely disincentivize recruiting women. Secondly it would remove a unique feature from the supremacy memes, which they are already lacking and which was the mod's point to begin with. Thirdly I don't believe there are many actual societies that can exist without the desire for the presence of women.

Oh, OK, fair reasoning. Maybe you're right. While I would argue with some points, that's your mod and you know better

Originally posted by CitizenKanye:

Since I get where you're coming from my suggestion would be to get one of those mods that unlocks the maximum meme cap, which I think VIE memes and structures is unplayable without anyway. Otherwise you can use dev mode to force the precept if you want to override the mod's balance

Thanks, maybe these are the best solutions after all. I think there's even no need for additional mod, because VIE has some scrollers in it's settings up to 6 memes and more than that would be a weird ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Originally posted by CitizenKanye:

Think of it like this: in the general case this mod is supposed to make women and men the yin and yang of colonies. The goal is to make you feel the consequences of the absence of either sex. Male and Fem Sup are the ones allowing you to break that structure

Yeah, I think I get it. It was just a little wish-thought of mine, that it would be nice if we could tone it down a bit without need for drastic measures like Male Sup. More of an immersive change than game breaker. But you made some good points in opposition.