A Total War Saga: TROY

A Total War Saga: TROY

A G O N Y [ overhaul ]
minWanabe Feb 15, 2023 @ 2:39pm
Multiplayer and Agony first impressions
Hello, a friend and I recently tried the Agony mod in multiplayer to confirm if it works in multiplayer and also how it plays in the first place seeing as this would be our first go of it.

So first of all as Epic users for Troy thanks for putting up a download link. I looked into downloading your texture mods but it seems the workshop for Troy is locked down to only those which own the game on Steam so external workshop download websites or SteamCMD itself doesn't seem to work for downloading anything off the workshop here. That's a fairly minor niggle though and I think for multiplayer testing the less mods active the better, even if they should be harmless texture mods. Also, I believe for the media-fire download link only one replacement of the dots is needed to avoid the steam censorship.

The extra playable factions are great for a couple of newbies to ensure they're positioned close together. Getting two side by side took a little while, though. Haven't looked up what kind of sorting the game uses by default on the faction list but it's quite a jumble going through them. It would be great if CA had added a really minor feature where you could click a province on the map display and if that faction was a valid option you'd change to their selection.

It looks like almost all of the factions which have become playable don't have any multiplayer descriptions when hovering over their main icon but you can still see their debuffs/buffs to units etc from hovering over their other little secondary icon.

It was a bit late when we were trying out the mod but we did manage to get two short games in. One only 6 turns and the other 23 turns.

The first game I had picked a minor faction which begun with 2 small settlements but no facilities to recruit units. It seemed clear after a short while that my faction and my friends faction were probably supposed to be at war and his one is supposed to eat up mine. After a blunder with auto-resolve (which on the surface seemed like a sure thing but a single champion archer guy killed almost all our peasants) we lost our forces and I couldn't exactly rebuild them so we fully intended on starting over lol. This game ended during during our final desperate battle. At some point during this battle the game on the host machine froze up and eventually the game closed it-self, back to desktop. Seemed similar to an infinite loop kind of bug or something but hard to say. Didn't see anything specific to cause it so can't say if this was a one off or not, or even due to the mod or a vanilla/game engine issue.

Second game my friend picked the same faction and I picked another one on the opposite side. This time I started with a faction capital and a small settlement, which should be far better. Like the previous faction though I couldn't recruit units. My settlement building didn't unlock any units and their tier 1 unit production building also did not have any units or bonuses available. My friends versions of those buildings though did. I can't remember what the factions chosen were specifically but they were both Thracian I believe and situated somewhere northwest of the map. They could unlock units at tier 2 with their defensive/garrison kind of building. I don't mind this too much as it was kind of fun take on the game being a little bread-basket for my ally and going into feed mode while trying to push up growth, and otherwise assist with my small group of peasants. I mis-prioritised some stuff though and could have likely gotten that T2 building up had I not for example built the T1 military building hoping it was just a UI bug and then forgetting to replace it with a growth building.

We did get into only a couple battles during this game but it all seemed quite stable from the campaign and battle standpoint this time, at least until the very final battle. It seems the feature which automatically ends the battle and hides the HUD can cause a weird de-sync as this was the first battle we tried to chase down enemies in, rather than just clicking end-battle quickly. When this feature kicks in it looks like it works properly, the HUD for both players hid away at roughly the same time, the battle went into slow motion and shortly after it ended at what looked like the correct time. However, during the brief loading screen the battle had stated it was a close defeat rather than the victory we had. Also, all the units on the display showed full HP here. After only a couple of seconds the host was suddenly automatically on the main menu, game over and time for us to sleep lol. It was only one battle we allowed to end that way so can't be 100% sure that was the cause but it does seem to be highly likely.

I think we had fun with our short campaigns of your mod in multiplayer. I like the way the campaign really seems to get the player to make difficult choices. All the extra campaign mechanics seem to add quite a bit to the decision-making process, which I think is good. The resource excess feature was kind of fun to juggle, prioritising the growth but also the resource gain by giving each other resources depending on our goals at the time. I think there was only one little niggle which came up during the campaign side of the game which was a little annoying but is probably a vanilla issue. I had one of those multi-choice dilemmas pop up on my screen and had some choices to make. The title of the Dilemma which sticks out of the UI at the top was actually covering my resource numbers so I couldn't see how much I had, which made it difficult to weigh in properly on which options to choose.

The battles felt right to me. I last played Troy at launch and the not so good battle balance there played a role in me not replaying Troy again. In vanilla (launch) troy it was just a mess, units would just run through each other all the time and there wasn't any sense of any kind of front-lines but here we have that and it's fantastic :). I do understand vanilla is likely to be better now after DLC/patches but what you have achieved here seems great to me.

Well done with the mod. I think it's great but probably not quite there for multiplayer in terms of stability, it seems very close to that point though as all the Campaign mechanics upto that point appeared to be syncing correctly without issues.

[edit]
Just as a small clarification, we downloaded from the mediafire link at roughly the same time so our versions of the mod should be the same one.
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Last edited by minWanabe; Feb 15, 2023 @ 3:05pm
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Ganossa  [developer] Feb 15, 2023 @ 4:52pm 
Thanks a lot for the lengthy feedback!

I will look into the Thracian factions and early recruitment issues.
It would help of course to know which factions you played as but I will otherwise go through all of them ))

Do you guys own the DLC?

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Regarding battles, you make a very good point there, cause in my compatibility patch for multiplayer, I forgot to look at the battle scripts ...

Can you just tell me the battle constallations for each of those battles.
How many armies and who was allied and who was enemy?
Was is a settlement battle and who was attacker/defender?

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I will look at the faction select screen in multiplayer, wasn't aware of it being different from the single player campaign select but it makes sense.

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The texture mods in particular are available on EPIC by the way. Just search for "texture pack", there should be 4x parts.
Ganossa  [developer] Feb 15, 2023 @ 4:58pm 
Looks like at least Thracians do not have any "militia" units in their minor settlement building available for recruitment. I gonna add some and have a look at other cultures as well.
minWanabe Feb 15, 2023 @ 5:25pm 
Hello, you're most welcome for the feedback :-).

I should have made a note on the factions when I initially looked at our saves for their turn times. My friend played as the Bottiaeans both times and I played as Mygdonians in the first and Paeonians in the second game.

I have the Amazon DLC but nothing else. My friend would either have the Amazon DLC or none at all.

The first battle I can't quite recall, sorry. I think the enemy launched an attack with an army with 7-8 units and had some kind of garrison assisting them against my starter army of 5-6 and my friends army with only 4 heavily wounded units. We got a good way through the battle and actually were doing surprisingly well but then the host machine froze and eventually wound up on the desktop.

The last battle we had when it had that false defeat and went to the main menu was a 1 VS 1 battle. The enemy army attacked with 12 units total against my friends garrison of a minor settlement with I think 8 units, no assisting armies on either side. I was controlling a group of archers and a melee group and my friend the remainder.

As far as the battle constellations that is unfortunately not a detail I can recall anymore.

Fortunately we were also testing out recording a video so are currently uploading a video of our long-winded and un-edited fumbling here. Not 100% how it'll turn out as this was for a new setup but hopefully skimming through somewhere it'll show with more detail the circumstances if they end up being required. The video is still currently processing. https://youtu.be/rha_7I4nQHs?t=6867

Also have the crash dump files but I don't know if they'll even be useful
https://www.mediafire(SUPERDOTFILTER)com/file/q44f5o8ovrszy89/crash_report.zip/file

Awesome thanks for having a look at those minor factions, if you're going through a whole bunch of them that sounds like that'll take some effort just to simply compile a list of which ones to deal with so good luck with all that.

[edit]
Neither of us thought to look on the Epic modding platform, thanks for that info :).
Video finished uploading at tiny resolution, time stamped the link with before the battle beginning. This is for the second battle, though. Neither of us captured the initial crash to desktop unfortunately.
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Last edited by minWanabe; Feb 15, 2023 @ 6:07pm
Ganossa  [developer] Feb 15, 2023 @ 6:02pm 
Thanks and I will checkout the video, once it is uploaded.

Not sure if base thracian units could also be locked behind the Thracian DLC.

In the 1v1 battle you are able to take control of some of the other player's units?
Can you also take control of the enemy units instead?

This might definitely be some issue at the moment, conflicting with the battle scripts.
minWanabe Feb 15, 2023 @ 6:28pm 
Oh of course, if most of the unit roster of those factions (or any in general) are actually locked behind DLC then yeah it makes sense that they're a bit underwhelming without having such DLC lol. If that is the case then I suppose the most helpful avenue to explore would be to add something like "Requires xx DLC to have a full unit roster" in their faction description or some-such.

We were able to gift and control each others units just fine. We were playing in the CO-OP mode which I think disables the ability to take control of an opposing AI during a battle, so that's an unknown.

Looks like the steam automatic interpretation of youtube doesn't preserve the timestamp, so instead here's a url link with a timestamp applied for the second battle. Timestamp link. The first battle has been lost like tears in the rain.
Ganossa  [developer] Feb 15, 2023 @ 6:43pm 
Okay, there is definitely something wrong with the battle end screen, maybe related to the slow down and the script might trying to bring end the battle on both player's side while actually only one is the owner of the battle.

I will look into the battle scripts and try to release an update soon for you to try if you like.
minWanabe Feb 15, 2023 @ 7:15pm 
I also highly suspect at the very least something amiss with the way the battle can end during that particular triggered event. I also wonder about the previous crash but something like that may be difficult to track down for certain. If it is even a feature or something in the mod causing that one.

We'll be happy to give it a go again but don't worry about rushing through trying to get it sorted. I know what that can be like dealing with pushing out multiple updates/patches etc.

At least we can record some footage so during any issues the footage itself may catch some important details we don't notice.
Ganossa  [developer] Feb 16, 2023 @ 8:26am 
I released an update for the battles in Multiplayer. While I could not test it, I hope it can fix the issue.

It will still end the battle after it is won but now immediately instead of having the slow-motion, which might have caused the de-sync.
minWanabe Feb 17, 2023 @ 4:11am 
Awesome, thanks for looking into it and pushing out an update. We have had some time to get into a new game, 19 turns into this one before putting up this post. This time I chose a faction which I do have units for :).

I believe we have determined that the first initial "random" battle crash to desktop is unrelated to the mod or troy as it also occurred during the campaign map once during this session. It's likely due to some elusive system instability on that particular PC which seems to occasionally effect some software but not others. Dealing with that is a slow WIP.

We did get a small skirmish in and there is good news and bad news with this. The good news is that the transition to the campaign is better* as it looked correct in terms of showing all the stats etc. On the other hand, when the battle ended the non-host player was kicked off the game rather abruptly. The circumstances of this battle was different than the last one though. Primarily being a loss rather than a win this time around. There is a video link of just that battle to easier show the behaviour off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmzY_Eyh300

*well maybe having one player kicked off caused this good part to happen and this is actually a moot point lol

Definitely having fun with your mod and it may very well be possible that this is the only desync issue with battles, which is actually kind of good because the nature of de-syncs could potentially be quite painful to even track down in the first place.

Cheers.
Ganossa  [developer] Feb 17, 2023 @ 7:51am 
Thanks a lot for keep trying it out.
It is good indeed that at least the battle finishes properly. Is it possible for the person that got kicked out to re-join after?

I am also curious why in the battle the unit icon shows the skull if not unit is selected and not the faction flag. This should only be the case in custom battles.


I tested myself with another dev but so far only in custom battle and at least there we did not get any bugs so far (on Steam).

We will try in campaign at a later time too.
minWanabe Feb 19, 2023 @ 3:20pm 
Happy to help and give feedback. It can be impossible to be aware of certain things without it :).

We haven't yet tried to resume that game to confirm if the autosave was before or after that battle. I imagine resuming the save should all work just fine in general though. Naturally, we'll find out next time we have a look.

I didn't (and frankly still haven't because I don't know what to look for lol) spot that potential issue with the unit flags being incorrect. This is why video recordings can be a great tool because someone that's actively developing a project knows exactly how things are supposed to be.

I can confirm that Custom battles seem to work fine, we played maybe 5-6 custom battles back to back in an open field battle with absolutely no issues at all.
JMack May 26, 2023 @ 12:55pm 
There seems to still be this issue with multiplayer campaign battles what minWanabe mentioned: "On the other hand, when the battle ended the non-host player was kicked off the game rather abruptly.". In our game also non-host was kicked out first and after battle both ended up in multiplayer game section at main menus.
JMack May 26, 2023 @ 1:18pm 
Also campaign can be loaded but non-host seems not be able join any more. It is most probably because save files are different. DateTimes of the files are not the same.
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