The link to multi-save mod is here: https://discord.com/channels/973757699072352287/973760088546349066/1180575319594381443

@John Axios Thanks a lot for finding the mult-save mod!

Thank you Stix for creating an enable save submod! It's in the Agony Discord general chat from December 2, 2023 if anyone else is looking for it.

Okay, how do I disable the inability to Save my game? I'd like to be able to leave the game if I need to in the middle of my turn and not loose progress thank you.

You say that as though there is no political commentary that can be taken from the story of Troy. Their mistake was funny though.

lmao at being so mod illiterate to assume political commentary in troy mods.

can i only use the HD mods or i need this one so the others work?

@farloux
He's referencing a Total War: Rome 2 mod called Divide Et Imperia (DEI) not making a political statement.
https://divideetimperamod.com

Aristoxenus... the DEI of Troy? Are you okay? Do you even know what DEI is? Do you know what this mod does? Just pathetic dude.

Hello. Can we make confederations with this mod? I do not it in the diplomatic option. Thanks

I'm trying the mod out but once I arrive at the faction screen, I cannot see any characters. They are blank.

I do hear the audio of the character/faction but besides that I don't see anything else. anyone has the same problem?

It looks like the DEI of Troy total war

Its a great mod, I'm so lucky to find it! Thank you for your work

Extended faction mod compatible ?

On another note, I am confused as to why my archers seem to wait for the enemy to get too close before firing. If not sometimes having line of sight issues. I can't tell if it's because of this mod or just Troy in general but that "nerf?" has definitely resulted in losing too many troops. Well, it really makes it difficult for a faction who relies on archers to survive is what I mean. I'm curious if this is intentional or a bug.

If there is any place to read up on your 'civil war' mechanic I'd love to be directed to because that and the relationship between my generals are the two enigmas in these new systems for me. I have no clue how to control any of that. It honestly feels like I don't have any control.

Besides all that, thank you for this beautiful mod. It's always a blast to see modders make a game even better.

If I had any complaints that would be for more information for the player in those sections and pop up events that open on first campaign launch. It's really bare bones and I would have loved to see more tips and general information to transition the player from vanilla to Agony. It's really different and I gotta say it didn't feel like enough. I haven't even touched the oracle because I barely got my first temple at turn 130. But, I guess it all makes sense because I'm only in at around 11 years(timewise, not turns). It can get repetitive. But, what total war game doesn't. Something that is sort of eased with that submod that re-activates the power balance UI bar. Knowing I can auto resolve a battle during those repetitive situations where my army can obliterate a weakened region helps. If not some random remnant of an old army. I've fought 29 battles and only autoresolved 10. I think that's decent.

That pacing your forced into has encouraged me to fuck around and raid when I can. I know I can't and shouldn't take that region yet. Sacking it and coming back next year(6-12 turns) is like the perfect combo of breaking through the regional powers the player can set their eyes to. Raiding while the AI army recovers, while you have spare time to tank some unhappy region, while you let your main province replenish it's citizens, just so you can maybe squeeze in a building upgrade here. It's beautiful man.

That population mechanic is chef's kiss. Once you figure out how to pace yourself with what your first province can provide, in terms of replenishment and size army, it helps the player transition and set expectations with how you'll expand. Knowing you can't expand because you can't tank unhappy regions. Because bro..., those rebellions are the worst. After running into one I never want to have to deal with one again. Instant army instead of a gradual rebellion really throws a sucker punch at you. You take a few unnecessary loses and the AI faction you were at war with comes and obliterates you for being so careless with rebellions. Which I believe you consider 'civil wars.' Slow and steady was key and I've found myself gradually expanding Northwards and Northwest-wards.

I'm playing your mod for the first time as the Queen of the Amazons, Hippolyta. At first attempt I was seriously dissuaded from playing with this mod because my god was I flabbergasted how an aggressive typical Total War playthrough was not possible. Even though I've played Rome 2 Dei I was not expecting this one to be even slower. At least, it feels so fucking slow. But, I love it. It took me about 50 turns just to get a proper idea of how to progress. You really do sometimes spend an entire year(12 turns) chilling at base some times. Ya'll weren't kidding with the name. Absolute Agony I honestly unsubscribed and then ran it back for the resubscribe after having a blast with Radious' overhaul. That overhaul is fun and chaotic. This shit right here is down right seditious and requires precise planning.

DORIANS = sea people units, interesting

@Ganosa I can't get on to your discord so I've uploaded the save file to google drive

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xEcIYPB1wAyHhcQZN1Z2jQLnGKs1pTQP/view?usp=sharing

I think loyalty is an issue here: I started a new campaign and recruited a general with the patriotic trait, so she should have gained 1 loyalty per turn for being in the same region as my faction leader, and 2 for winning a battle. Instead, she gained no loyalty points, but lost one after a few turns, and then lost another shortly after. She stayed at zero after that.

Some archers actually have spears as melee weapons ))
There are scenarios in which an army cannot retreat, e.g. on some islands where there is no space to escape. In that case, the army will be killed.

Ah, right, thank you for the response!
Just lost my the reinforced chariots of my general while engaging Archers, was not fired upon and all chariots suddenly died while engaging the archers in melee, after the battle the whole army disappeared from the campaign map

It reduces the advantage the player has (still has with the little extra time) vs AI that stops the battle immediately when it is won.

It also reduces the rather boring chase time as a side effect ))

Sorry JePeVe, hit remove on your message by mistake :

JePeVe: Why can't we be able to kill off the remaining fleeing enemies after the battle is won? it's forced to end and enemies I even have completely surrounded survive and get away, like wtf?

Can you share that save file on the Agony discord maybe?

It was somewhere around turn 100, and it was just a random general, reinforcing my faction leader. FWIW, I reloaded the save and had another look, and I think it might be a loyalty problem. All my generals have zero loyalty, despite me following their little rules. I haven't had any warning messages though, so I just hadn't noticed. I don't know why they all have zero loyalty- I've been careful to keep them doing what they like. None of them are in the negative either.

This does just not sound possible but I will check the code.
What turn was that and did your faction leader die or some random general?

This would be less game-breaking if I could just reload an earlier save by the way- no idea why you felt the need to remove that option. It's a shame, because I've been having a great time with this mod, but with the way the economy is balanced, I can't afford to have an elite army not only vanish, but become hostile, in the middle of an ongoing campaign.

It happened again, and this time in fully game-breaking fashion. Marched a twenty-stack army of upgraded troops into enemy territory- thrashed the enemy completely but lost my hero again (seems the're rather squishy in historical mode). Entire, upgraded, 20-stack army changed allegiance to Rhodes- who I'm apparently at war with. I'm still somewhere north of Lycia, so I have absolutely no idea why they get to take possession of 20 elite, formerly loyal troops.

@Ganossa
Thank you for the answer :D

Hm, this should not happen indeed, not sure how that would be possible.

@Ganossa
Thanks for taking the time to get back.
I was playing as Hippolyta (she starts at war with Athens by default), and I'd just laid siege to the city to the north-west of the starting settlement (forget it's name). The nearest Athenian settlements and armies are nowhere nearby at this early stage of the game. I had my main army, reinforced by a second force and the enemy sallied. I won the battle, but lost the reinforcing general. When I got back to the campaign screen, the reinforcing army had changed to Athenian control, with an Athenian general.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3280693038
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3280693014
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3280692991

@JePeVe, turn 1x actions for me would be:
- make alliance with Pylos
- trade 17 gold for 200 bronze with Argos
- activate/research Royal Granaries
- disable (gold) production in Aliphera
- move army towards mantineia and start recruiting units

Afterwards, I would try to take Erchomenos and gift it to Mycenae for a military alliance (you could do that instead also with Argos)

@JePeVe, they do not have the easiest start because of having only minor settlements in various different regions.
You can secure the province Arcania & Pylos by getting a military alliance with Pylos on turn 1x which will boost the happiness in that region.
Then you need to decide which way to expand. You could try to take Elis' major settlement first, or try to attack the Ionians, which will be a harder fight but supported by all neighbouring achaean factions.

@Jimbob, did you fight the battle in Athens territory or with an Athenian army nearby and were you at war with them? My guess would be that whoever took charge of your army after the general died was hating your faction leader and be friendly with an Athenian general in the same region, therefore deciding to join them.

Wierd bug: Played a battle in hostile territory with a reinforcing general. General died during the battle. After the battle, the whole army flipped control to an enemy faction (Athens to be precise, which is on the other side of the map). Still my faction's units, but led by an enemy general. Pretty game-breaking at this stage of the campaign to be honest: My one remaining army isn't strong enough to finish the siege and then deal with them.

Playing first time as Arcadians, all happiness goes to hell automatically from the start taking all towns to the path to rebellion, how the hell is one supposed to manage happiness levels in this game?

@sigmar, there might actually be an easier way to boost game speed for Pharaoh and Troy Agony by just giving some bonus faction effect to production and growth.

@Maggot, relationships between generals are determined by their traits. Traits are grouped into battle traits and administration traits and based on these, a character lands somewhere on a scale between the two extreme.
If characters are close to each other on that scale, they have good relationships.
Between factions, the relationships are transitory and faction relations are also involved. For example, if a character dislikes his own faction leader, he will be more friendly towards enemies of his faction.

All that said I really enjoy what you've done with the economy and population to slow down the campaign and make it harder, its just that the relationship system feels too artificial or at least its not explained well enough to not feel blatantly unfair. I would have expected victories to increase their relationships not tank it. Also I've encountered a bug where an army defected while in my settlement and it resulted in the general being injured and returned to my general pool and another general with the same name spawned in the defecting army, a relaunch of the game seemed to have fixed that though.

Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans for submods for agony particularly in regards to the relationship mechanic? I've enjoyed the mod so far except for the relationship system, as far as I've tested after losing multiple armies to defections, there's no real logical sense as to how the relationships develop between faction leader and other heroes. Maybe the relationship system is too limited by the game's engine. I've had a hero lose 8 points of relationship with Achilles after winning a single battle. I've tested multiple scenarios to try to understand what affects relationship (like reinforcing, taking battles solo etc. etc.) and I've not really been able to figure it out so it just feels like its artificially slowing down the campaign without much logic behind it.

Two simple benchmarks:

1.) I think the LL should be able to recruit whatever the max is in terms of units (also not just the cheapest options) on turn 1. It should also not bankrupt the player within 2 turns if he chose the more expensive options (so e.g. rushing to good units and then picking a hard but lucrative fight/siege on the first few turns becomes a viable strategy)

2.) Things like bartering resources should be irrelevant on the first 5-10 turns as factions, at least the player's, have a bit of a surplus.

Would this something similar to this, be possible, e.g. via a really simple optional "Easy Mode" submod? It could also be something that's just supporting the player an for XY turns I think... <3

@Toshniel I'm not sure I understand, why don't you load the save one turn before? Boom - campaign unstuck as well, no? <3

@Ganossa Following up on the comment I left on Agony for Pharaoh, but also Duccio's comments below: I do understand you're trying to prevent snowballing as much as you can, but if there was a dead simple (maybe from your POV even "too simple" haha) way of playing the Agony mods exactly as they are, but with a significantly faster campaign start, I am almost SURE people would LOVE this.

Of course, as this is a sandbox, changes should affect all factions on the map. If however that throws all the hard work you put into balance even more down the drain, then (as it's called "Easy Mode" or "Fast Campaign Start") ofc a player-only buff could also work.

Congratulations on making it that far, unfortunately I wasn't aware that auto-resolve was blocked for the Troy battle but I can see to make manual battles available for the battle of Troy.
If that update releases, you should be able to pick up that campaign again.

Hello, i have a potentially campaign-breaking issue to report.
During my attacking siege battle against the city of Troy, i lost and rage quit the game :D Now, upon loading, my campaign is stuck on the battle initiation screen autosave.
I cannot fight manually because of the Agony mechanic. That's a great idea btw! :)
...i have already used the special option to retry a manual battle once in 100 turns. That's a great idea too! :)
I cannot autoresolve because it's the battle of Troy and it cannot be autoresolved.
I cannot retreat or continue the siege, not sure why. I can view a battle map preview and assign banners, but that's about it - my campaign is stuck :(
Is this a punishment for my short temper, or can you think of a way to continue the game? :D
(also, thank you for this amazing mod, i had many a pleasant evening thanks to you!)

It is to be fair to the AI which does not have any time to round up your troops but always finishes the battle exactly at the time all your units route.

It is also not the most interesting activity in battle to just run after fleeing units.

Thanks a lot Ganossa for your advice. Just one more remark: why did you shorten the end of battles after all enemy units are routing? In some cases, it is interesting to use the end of the battle to finish off an army. In the case of Ethiopians for example, they have the capacity to regenerate very quickly. Without the possibility to finish them off after a decisive victory, you will find them again in front of you the very next turn...

Thanks Duccio, the main reason for the resource chain mechanic is to prevent or slow down snowballing.
However, you will always retain resources if you do not just upgrade the main building but also resource generating buildings. It is not adviced to just upgrade the main buildings when ready and you need to plan your conquest.
You can also build the break even trader in each resource settlement, which allows you to not loose any resource but gain only little in return (this is useful if you own a gold mine early on)

Hello again, I tried to play a "normal" game and I must admit your mod is much better in terms of realistic costs to create and sustain an army. Therefore the value of each unit is much more important with your mod and that is very interesting in a long term strategy. Whereas in the vanilla version plenty of units can be produced early in the game and even if you win several battles in a row, armies of 20 units keep on coming against you as if human ressources were unlimited... Maybe you could just reduce the amount of gold, wood, copper and stones each settlement can produce to obtain the same effect. This could avoid the strange feeling that when you succeed in capturing a gold settlement, you immediately have a problem with wood or copper if you want to produce something. In fact, when I played your mod I spent dozens of turns producing nothing in certain places just to have enough of other goods. Let me know if that makes any sense for you. Best Regards, Duccio

Hello Ganossa, I've been playing your mod for 25 hours and I want to thank you for all the work you've done. I found some aspects very interesting - army management and movement in particular - but I'm sorry to say the production aspects gave me a very strange feeling. As if you could not have 100 gold without losing 50 copper and 50 wood, etc. I see the purpose in those drastic changes but in my opinion they are far too heavy. The starting game is then very slow and counterintuitive. I had to play over 120 turns to stabilize my production a bit and even then I had to buy food every turn to keep my single 15 units army fed. The lack of basic products didn't help also in diplomatic relations, already poor in the vanilla version.
Thanks again for all your efforts. Duccio Vitale