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Call to Arms - Gates of Hell: Ostfront >  Workshop > DasMoss's Workshop > Improved Squads & Rebalance For Conquest > Discussions
Improved Squads & Rebalance For Conquest
Description Discussions5 Comments915 Change Notes
BONG JAGUAR SHART COMMANDER Jun 27, 2021 @ 11:30pm
Some Thoughts
Been playing with this mod for a bit now and heres some feedback based on my experiences, mainly with the germans. First off, I think veterancy could use some toning down, higher level veteran infantry end up with pretty insane amounts of HP, like brandenburgers ending up with over 500 HP, meaning they can walk through grenades and even survive direct HE hits from some tanks.The amount of panzerschrecks and bazookas could probably use some toning down, honestly I'd probably limit them to only being present in AT detachment units. The AI has access to them from the very first mission for example, making keeping early tanks alive very hard. Lightly armored vehicles in general are just faring really poorly due to the increase in AT rifles on the battlefield.

Early conquest is just very hard in general, since again, the AI has access to high level infantry that completely blasts both your tanks and your own soldiers. It got so bad that I straight up had to delete the russian part of this mod.

I think some infantry squads are simply too good at everything, like the Brandenburgers. They kick ass at almost every range, they have a baked in panzerschreck (and with veterancy they can yolo rush tanks cause of their huge amount of HP) and all of them can revive each other. I'd scrap the panzerschreck, let the AT detachment version keep it instead. Maybe lower ttheir squad size to 8 so you can fit them in half-track transports. Thats a problem the germans have now, since all squads now default to 10 people you can no longer fit them in empty half-tracks without leaving people behind. I'd probably also cut down on the squad members that can revive.

Speaking of medics, I think instead of baking in medics into every squad, perhaps it would be better to make Medic detachment units do a better job of fitting in with squads? Maybe replace the default medic squads pistols with basic faction rifles like the mosin/kar and bump their HP to 250. That way they wont suicidally charge to get in range whenever you group them up with other infantry. Maybe add a higher level medic detachment, combat medics or something, armed with semi-auto rifles and trades in the tent kit for a shovel so they can dig foxholes. That way both detachment types dont step on each others toes too much.

So to summarize, I mainly think infantry could use some toning down.
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
DasMoss  [developer] Jun 28, 2021 @ 1:40pm 
I like the veterancy myself at the moment. Currently it takes quite a lot of kills just to gain vet so I wanted those veterans to have a bit more survivability as a reward of achieving those higher levels.

With the AI, they seem to use any available infantry off the get go for garrisoning points, there's no real way atm to fix that sadly. But I like the AT become more prevalent as the matches go on or else every game is the same "Push tanks up, clear out positions, send inf to cap" every round. With how it is now, you need to actually think about your tanks as they are vulnerable.

Half tracks can fit 12 people so 10 is perfect. For the medics I am already planning a combat triage detachment/squad in the future for both sides and will make the actual medics have a faster revive time for infantry.

In the end some of the issues you are facing seem to stem from Min-maxing, conquest for me at least and the vision of this mod has always been sandbox. Its how you want to play, if you want to run a tigergruppe of like 5 tigers and just steam roll that's up to you. Maybe you want to spam brandenburgers or whatever, do what you want to do.
#1
BONG JAGUAR SHART COMMANDER Jun 29, 2021 @ 1:01am 
The thing about veterancy is that killing tanks gets it way faster, which is why soldiers with bazookas end up super tanky super quickly so you have ubersoldiers that can sprint through heavy MG fire to blast more tanks. Also I understand where you're coming from with the inclusion of bazookas, but I think you need to think of it like this: even if its restricted to just AT detachment style troops, there's still a massive increase of their presence in Conquest cause in the base game they're not even present at all.

I think I'd rather have more enemy AT gun emplacements or something on cap points, cause the main issue I'm having are the random enemy reinforcements that show up. Currently you cant force units to focus on a specific direction, meaning that itsvery difficult to effectively watch your flanks. Meaning its easy to lose tanks to yolo AT infantry, which have an increased chance of spawning due to higher presence of bazookas in the infantry pool. Its a serious issue in the early game when you cant really afford to lose anything, cause you can only afford about...One tank, two squads of infantry and some detachments.

Iunno if its part of the mod or another bug entirely, but the empty half-tracks have a crew of 3 for some reason. You dont see the last soldier, but the description says 3 and when I try to use them in game theres always one guy that gets left out of the half-track. Its pretty weird.
#2
BaraBoom Sep 20, 2021 @ 11:39pm 
there is a good suggestion. add a trigger, or a flag after which there will be a victory (when the enemies run out). This is in order to capture the necessary trophies. And then during the battle there is simply no such opportunity. Quite realistic - collect trophies after the battle
#3
Battlechief Jan 3, 2022 @ 9:27am 
Originally posted by BaraBoom:
there is a good suggestion. add a trigger, or a flag after which there will be a victory (when the enemies run out). This is in order to capture the necessary trophies. And then during the battle there is simply no such opportunity. Quite realistic - collect trophies after the battle

I think some sort of limitation on units capable of being deployed during later defenses would be nice, but could be ignored for now.

as of 1/3/2022 (or 3/1/2022 for everyone who reads it differently than the US), your best bet later in the game is to capture trophy tanks and weapons during assault phases. As you can wait out the enemy forces (they start putting out one squad at a time, rather than spamming tanks and infantry) and claim trophies during the lulls and end.

Now, to address my concerns and bits towards this mod and its function; Infantry loadouts.
This mod seems to be more focused towards later in the war (as said by DasMoss, and the kits) but some of the kits are a little odd; PTRS's are the only available AT rifles, and are only available on one squad. The Soviet AT detachment uses a bazooka (they did get them through lend lease, no denying it) when the most common form of handheld infantry AT was the PTRD/PTRS (PTRD for later war, due to simplistic production) and AT grenades.

The Soviets had far more AT rifles than they had bazookas. So my idea and thought on it is to turn the Soviet AT rifle squadron into an AT support unit, rather than a rifle squad supported with 2 PTRS's. My other idea is to make the AT detachment work with a PTRD, and make the Tank hunter squadron a bazooka squad, or to reverse it, and leave the AT detachment with the bazooka, and make the Tank hunter squad the PTRD squad. This would be more representative of later war units.
#4
Battlechief Jan 3, 2022 @ 9:45am 
I also think the German AT units could see a change, since Panzerschrecks are pretty powerful. You could take out the AT detachment (Could leave it in, but they are armed with a Pz.B. 39, due to the lack of a Gr.B 39, that or you could give a soldier the Schiessbecher K98 with AT grenades, and the assistant gets a Faustpatrone or two), and up the research cost of the tankhunter squad (PanzerJäger team) to compensate for its powerful AT weaponry, and to more closely represent the AT team tactics used during the course of the war.

Speaking of infantry AT, I'd also like to maybe suggest the spreading out of Faustpatrone's among the weaker infantry units, such as Luftwaffe ground personnel (extremely weak infantry with poor stats, but easy to get early AT from them. Would only need 1 man armed with a faustpatrone or two) and maybe Blau division (Großdeutscheland already gets Panzerfaust 100's, which isn't too much of a stretch, considering they were well armed) as well, as they are lower tier "Semi-elite" infantry (Named, unique armament, decent stats compared to regular grenadiers)

I'd also like to suggest spreading out more AT grenades (RPG-40s) for Soviet infantry, that or molotovs amongst conscript squads and regular rifle squads. Guards rifle units should see the better AT grenades (RPG-43's), and less molotovs (they were quite effective for AT work, so bound to still see them). I suggest more infantry AT due to the fact that most squads were geared to also take out tanks when given the chance in the later years of the wars; regular German soldiers given Frangible grenades, molotovs, panzerfäuste, and Soviet infantry following the same route with AT grenades and molotovs, alongside AT rifles (as the PTRD was still effective against StuG III G's and Panzer IV's once the skirts were dealt with, same with Panthers up close)

*As for luft, blau division, and convicts, I'll see about making up breed files for the changes, this way they can be easily implemented*
Last edited by Battlechief; Jan 3, 2022 @ 11:48am
#5
mazdamundi Jan 11, 2022 @ 10:21pm 
can you change it so supply trucks give enemy or friendly heavy ordnance. small arms are a bit pointless as i doubt any one has time to pick up small arms
#6
anybis Sep 5, 2022 @ 10:34am 
Originally posted by DasMoss:
I like the veterancy myself at the moment. Currently it takes quite a lot of kills just to gain vet so I wanted those veterans to have a bit more survivability as a reward of achieving those higher levels.

With the AI, they seem to use any available infantry off the get go for garrisoning points, there's no real way atm to fix that sadly. But I like the AT become more prevalent as the matches go on or else every game is the same "Push tanks up, clear out positions, send inf to cap" every round. With how it is now, you need to actually think about your tanks as they are vulnerable.

Half tracks can fit 12 people so 10 is perfect. For the medics I am already planning a combat triage detachment/squad in the future for both sides and will make the actual medics have a faster revive time for infantry.

In the end some of the issues you are facing seem to stem from Min-maxing, conquest for me at least and the vision of this mod has always been sandbox. Its how you want to play, if you want to run a tigergruppe of like 5 tigers and just steam roll that's up to you. Maybe you want to spam brandenburgers or whatever, do what you want to do.


Good afternoon.
Thanks for the mod and balance, I really like the new units and balance.

There are not enough radio operators in fashion with the call of "artillery strike"
#7
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