These Trech additions are absolutely genius

Originally posted by benettonkkb:

These Trech additions are absolutely genius

Thank you, I will still have to see what this does in an actual hard battle. I have no idea if a morale buff can make a broken unit regroup.

I like the Tretch changes a lot, that's very thematically fitting.

For Ikit...that one I'm not so sure about. I feel like a unit that's based around deploying and "turreting" Jezzails would be the ones for that, since they're two man squads that set up their rifles. Ratling guns have significantly shorter range by comparison, and the lack of moving will make them incredibly vulnerable to flanking strikes. ESPECIALLY if you're ambushed. An ambush would basically guarantee that unit dies.

(Sorry for double post, had some additional thoughts.)

The ability for Queek's Stormvermin, now that I think about it, could actually fit better for Skrolk's plaguemonks. The idea being they take on the infectious plague but use it to kill their enemies first.

An alternative idea for Queek, whichis more lore friendly, could be something of a passive defensive buff to nearby lords/heroes. The reason being the story of...I can't remember, one of Queek's lieutenants who was so uncharacteristically loyal he actually took a blade strike for Queek (which is unheard of in Skaven society.) So in this case, the fiercely loyal stormvermin could be hero/lord protectors.

Sniktch is in a pretty good place, I like using his army complement with the current mods. Maybe there could be something for specifically him and embedded assassin heroes (those good bois rarely get used in armies.) I'm thinking something along the lines of a "mock" skaven cavalry. Not in the sense of actual cavalry, but an activated ability (maybe a modified version of concealment bombs) which can be used in combat to break off, stalk, and then get a charge bonus to re-engage with the enemy. That would really help that feeling of sneaky ninjitsu rat.

@Valthejean I was thinking Skrolk too, about that stormvermin feature.

Are you thinking about Ska Bloodtail? https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ska_Bloodtail

Originally posted by benettonkkb:

@Valthejean I was thinking Skrolk too, about that stormvermin feature.

Are you thinking about Ska Bloodtail? https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ska_Bloodtail

That's the one! Thank you!

And yeah, that definitely fits the theme of clan Pestilins a lot, taking on deadly plagues that ravage their bodies so that it does even more harm to their enemies.

Originally posted by Valthejean:

I like the Tretch changes a lot, that's very thematically fitting.

For Ikit...that one I'm not so sure about. I feel like a unit that's based around deploying and "turreting" Jezzails would be the ones for that, since they're two man squads that set up their rifles. Ratling guns have significantly shorter range by comparison, and the lack of moving will make them incredibly vulnerable to flanking strikes. ESPECIALLY if you're ambushed. An ambush would basically guarantee that unit dies.

Well I have to say I don't think Skaven can get ambushed when controlled by the player, it will have to be a big misplay from the player.... I really like the concept and want to try it out (probably the main reason why I want to do this update) and I think the benefit of firing an extra bullet per shot + longer range + Higher damage per bullet is worth the trade off, currently this choice is just far better than the speed and Accuracy choice.

I will try it myself and see if I can protect from flanking with my warpfire throwers.

Originally posted by Valthejean:

(Sorry for double post, had some additional thoughts.)

The ability for Queek's Stormvermin, now that I think about it, could actually fit better for Skrolk's plaguemonks. The idea being they take on the infectious plague but use it to kill their enemies first.

An alternative idea for Queek, whichis more lore friendly, could be something of a passive defensive buff to nearby lords/heroes. The reason being the story of...I can't remember, one of Queek's lieutenants who was so uncharacteristically loyal he actually took a blade strike for Queek (which is unheard of in Skaven society.) So in this case, the fiercely loyal stormvermin could be hero/lord protectors.

Sniktch is in a pretty good place, I like using his army complement with the current mods. Maybe there could be something for specifically him and embedded assassin heroes (those good bois rarely get used in armies.) I'm thinking something along the lines of a "mock" skaven cavalry. Not in the sense of actual cavalry, but an activated ability (maybe a modified version of concealment bombs) which can be used in combat to break off, stalk, and then get a charge bonus to re-engage with the enemy. That would really help that feeling of sneaky ninjitsu rat.

The reason why I wanted to add Special Stormvermin for Queek is to represent "Red Guard" that follows him into battles. Which is led by Ska Bloodtail. The reason why I don't want to give heros any buff is because hero spam is already too strong in this game (It's also very immersion breaking). And the goal of these mods is, after all, to help the "weaker" units.

Also the "suicidal attack" ability is meant for Clanrats, not Stormvermin.(The Clan rats are, well, more expandable) I felt like even after the buffs they were not dishing out enough damage so I wanted to give them this. Also this will help differentiate shielded and not shielded variants and give ppl a reason to recruit the non-shielded variant.

With that said, I think the normal variant of Plague monk could also use a new ability, perhaps an active ability where the Plague monk will take some debuff, but also debuffs all enemy within a certain range and perhaps even damage them?

What do you exactly mean by "break off" with snikch? An ability to push enemy entities away from the unit? It normally works better with single entities, but I will see if it works/ if I have any other ideas. Again, buffing heros is not the goal of these mods.

Originally posted by benettonkkb:

@Valthejean I was thinking Skrolk too, about that stormvermin feature.

Are you thinking about Ska Bloodtail? https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ska_Bloodtail

I probably should have written it down better, but that "Suicidal Attack" is meant to unshielded Clanrats, not the special Stormvermin. The Stormvermin will come with aura to buff nearby Clanrats.

Originally posted by WRLegion:

Well I have to say I don't think Skaven can get ambushed when controlled by the player, it will have to be a big misplay from the player.... I really like the concept and want to try it out (probably the main reason why I want to do this update) and I think the benefit of firing an extra bullet per shot + longer range + Higher damage per bullet is worth the trade off, currently this choice is just far better than the speed and Accuracy choice.

I will try it myself and see if I can protect from flanking with my warpfire throwers.

It can definitely happen, especially on the harder difficulties. Beastmen or even opposing Skaven factions can definitely ambush you, and the other factions will use ambush stance too.

Basically what I'm getting at is it does take away a very skirmish related function to ratling guns, because of their slow effect they do on enemies. In battles where I don't have the advantage, I will use that a lot to shoot a bit, fall back, shoot some more, and I find it pretty rewarding gameplay. I like the idea of a set up unit, but I just think it's more fitting on Jezzails than on Ratling guns. Maybe the Ratling guns could have some kind of "rampage" style ability, where you lose control of them and they lose a ton of accuracy, but have their missile damage crazy buffed. (It would probably need to be changed from base rampage, because the idea would be indiscriminate fire, and not directly targetting your own units)

Originally posted by WRLegion:

The reason why I wanted to add Special Stormvermin for Queek is to represent "Red Guard" that follows him into battles. Which is led by Ska Bloodtail. The reason why I don't want to give heros any buff is because hero spam is already too strong in this game (It's also very immersion breaking). And the goal of these mods is, after all, to help the "weaker" units.

Also the "suicidal attack" ability is meant for Clanrats, not Stormvermin.(The Clan rats are, well, more expandable) I felt like even after the buffs they were not dishing out enough damage so I wanted to give them this. Also this will help differentiate shielded and not shielded variants and give ppl a reason to recruit the non-shielded variant.

With that said, I think the normal variant of Plague monk could also use a new ability, perhaps an active ability where the Plague monk will take some debuff, but also debuffs all enemy within a certain range and perhaps even damage them?

What do you exactly mean by "break off" with snikch? An ability to push enemy entities away from the unit? It normally works better with single entities, but I will see if it works/ if I have any other ideas. Again, buffing heros is not the goal of these mods.

Apologies, I agree that hero spam is already strong, but I do still like embedding some heroes into an army. What I was getting at was having the stormvermin be used to soak up damage that would otherwise go to your hero. But I see now that ability was intended for clanrats, my apologies. Alternatively, maybe there could be a little bit of fun with the suicide strat. Rather than giving that ability to clanrats, how about stormvermin (since this is still Queek's army) can summon a unit of special clanrats once a battle. These clanrats would be given the undead's crumbling trait, and no fleeing when broken, and would come with their own personal charge of warpbomb (or maybe a weaker version of it because that would be insanely strong.

For plague monks, that could work, I don't have any objection to that.

As for Sniktch, yeah the idea would be to have him be able to utilize the cycle charge mechanic in a more fun ninja sort of way. I do understand that your focus isn't on buffing heroes, but in this case I think it's warranted. Eshin is all about agents and stealth assassinations over direct upfront combat, so it makes sense for them to have fewer numbers on the field. And the assassin hero in particular is extremely underused in battles, and is almost entirely relegated to field work, if they're even bothered recruiting.

Originally posted by Valthejean:

Originally posted by WRLegion:

Well I have to say I don't think Skaven can get ambushed when controlled by the player, it will have to be a big misplay from the player.... I really like the concept and want to try it out (probably the main reason why I want to do this update) and I think the benefit of firing an extra bullet per shot + longer range + Higher damage per bullet is worth the trade off, currently this choice is just far better than the speed and Accuracy choice.

I will try it myself and see if I can protect from flanking with my warpfire throwers.

It can definitely happen, especially on the harder difficulties. Beastmen or even opposing Skaven factions can definitely ambush you, and the other factions will use ambush stance too.

Basically what I'm getting at is it does take away a very skirmish related function to ratling guns, because of their slow effect they do on enemies. In battles where I don't have the advantage, I will use that a lot to shoot a bit, fall back, shoot some more, and I find it pretty rewarding gameplay. I like the idea of a set up unit, but I just think it's more fitting on Jezzails than on Ratling guns. Maybe the Ratling guns could have some kind of "rampage" style ability, where you lose control of them and they lose a ton of accuracy, but have their missile damage crazy buffed. (It would probably need to be changed from base rampage, because the idea would be indiscriminate fire, and not directly targetting your own units)

Originally posted by WRLegion:

The reason why I wanted to add Special Stormvermin for Queek is to represent "Red Guard" that follows him into battles. Which is led by Ska Bloodtail. The reason why I don't want to give heros any buff is because hero spam is already too strong in this game (It's also very immersion breaking). And the goal of these mods is, after all, to help the "weaker" units.

Also the "suicidal attack" ability is meant for Clanrats, not Stormvermin.(The Clan rats are, well, more expandable) I felt like even after the buffs they were not dishing out enough damage so I wanted to give them this. Also this will help differentiate shielded and not shielded variants and give ppl a reason to recruit the non-shielded variant.

With that said, I think the normal variant of Plague monk could also use a new ability, perhaps an active ability where the Plague monk will take some debuff, but also debuffs all enemy within a certain range and perhaps even damage them?

What do you exactly mean by "break off" with snikch? An ability to push enemy entities away from the unit? It normally works better with single entities, but I will see if it works/ if I have any other ideas. Again, buffing heros is not the goal of these mods.

Apologies, I agree that hero spam is already strong, but I do still like embedding some heroes into an army. What I was getting at was having the stormvermin be used to soak up damage that would otherwise go to your hero. But I see now that ability was intended for clanrats, my apologies. Alternatively, maybe there could be a little bit of fun with the suicide strat. Rather than giving that ability to clanrats, how about stormvermin (since this is still Queek's army) can summon a unit of special clanrats once a battle. These clanrats would be given the undead's crumbling trait, and no fleeing when broken, and would come with their own personal charge of warpbomb (or maybe a weaker version of it because that would be insanely strong.

For plague monks, that could work, I don't have any objection to that.

As for Sniktch, yeah the idea would be to have him be able to utilize the cycle charge mechanic in a more fun ninja sort of way. I do understand that your focus isn't on buffing heroes, but in this case I think it's warranted. Eshin is all about agents and stealth assassinations over direct upfront combat, so it makes sense for them to have fewer numbers on the field. And the assassin hero in particular is extremely underused in battles, and is almost entirely relegated to field work, if they're even bothered recruiting.

I would think this rework would actually help with skirmishing... Currently choosing the firepower option will inflict a flat -65% Speed penalty, I really doubt if you can skirmish under that circumstance. (I mean you are slower than any other unit, even the arty pieces)
Also the current buff is already significant, they fire 1 more bullet per shot which already doubles the damage and the damage value of each bullet is also increased. Assuming both bullets hit something, the actual damage output per shot is tripled. Not to mention that they have their range increased to 180.
You can still do the shoot and move practice, but this time with 2 groups of them alternating between shooting and running. Also if you want to skirmish, picking the other option that gives more movement speed and accuracy would be more fitting, this is optional, not forced upon you.
In the end, I mean, the buff is so ridiculous for an already OP unit... I really should implement some downside to it, and in this case, I think I am actually making the trait better rather than worse. But I will test it and see how it does.

About Queek, I really like the idea of summoning clan rat with bound warpbomb, I will just implement both since Clanrats and Queek really need more content.

About Snikch, I am aware that some heros are not as OP as others, but they are still better than your regular non-Doomstack troops (And Snikch already buffs them and a full assassin army for him is already viable in vanilla).

The real problem is, I do not want to start an example, if I start buffing assassins, then what about Dark Elf assassins? What about Orion giving Ariel more buff (which is already suggested in the comment section of this mod)? Currently I just say no, because I don't want to buff heros, they are already good enough (and that is also the fact). If I am to make an exception for Skaven assassins, then I have no excuse to not do it for other heros.

I love the idea but it does not belong to this series, I am sorry. I know I am rejecting a lot of your suggestions, but please don't take it personally. I have rejected a lot of ideas and especially the ideas for buffing heros has never been accepted into these mods. I really hope you can understand why I have to reject them.

0 speed is too brutal - repositioning is very important in the game, especially if you are surrounded or miscalculated height differences and need to run away from friendly fire. Maybe, weaken buffs instead?

Originally posted by mzub245:

0 speed is too brutal - repositioning is very important in the game, especially if you are surrounded or miscalculated height differences and need to run away from friendly fire. Maybe, weaken buffs instead?

So this is how it works:
The ratling guns will have 2 operation modes:
1. Moving mode: Basically cannot fire, but you can move around as a normal ratling gun without the -65% Speed Penalty which is currently implemented.
2. Firing mode: Just like the vanilla ratling guns, but with potentially 3x the damage and more range.

Keep in mind: You cannot move and shoot at the same time in vanilla, which means so far it is a pure buff to what it was. (If you want your ratling guns to fire, they will have 0 Speed anyway)

You can toggle this ability at any time if you want, the only downside is that changing from Moving to shooting would take 5 second. Changing from shooting to moving doesn't even require any time. You are not locked in the firing stance, the only thing it means is that repositioning your units will take 5 seconds more, which I believe is totally justified. In most battles I don't even need to reposition them just because of the sheer firepower.

Also I am running buffed up Warpfire Thrower with them to deal with flanking enemies, you are not supposed to be only spamming out Ratling guns.

I am currently playing with this trait against High Elven and Bretonnian armies and I have no problem dealing with their Cavs and Flying mosters. (Which are the most powerful ones in the whole game). Honestly I am considering increase the time needed to set up firing mode just because how powerful this trait has became. You will have to take my word for it until you can see it in action.