Transport Fever 2

Transport Fever 2

Third Rail Tracks: United Kingdom
Agohonoh  [developer] Mar 17, 2020 @ 11:24am
To electrify or not to electrify?
The track is currently a non-electrified track. This means you can add the catenary on top of it. However, this also means you can't run officially electric trains on it.

There are three main reasons for this:

1. Clipping through crossings and junctions

The way the mod's implement means this is unavoidable as far as I can tell. Some junctions will have the 3rd rail clipping through them and all crossings have them. This requires a separate track type without the 3rd rail so that the model is removed. With them being non-electrified I'm able to just use the default track. However, if I were to allow an electrified version, trains running on electrified tracks might have gaps in the electrification or the track would have bits of catenary above it. Alternately I could add a third track type with no 3rd rail but invisible catenary. But this leads to reason 2.

2. UI Clutter

There's already 2 track types added to the game here. Each new track adds 2 more. With invisible catenaries there's 4 tracks, with the fully implemented invisible catenaries that brings it up to 6. If both the UK and NA versions are installed that's 12! I understand people like options but I still want my mods to be user friendly and not take up the entire track selection tray! Even making the pictures smaller, TpF naturally puts big gaps between track types. This could be remedied using a separate UI selection box but I don't know how to do that, don't know if it's possible, and quite frankly don't have the interest to try to figure out the code to make that happen.

3. It's not necessary

I don't think there's any reason why 3rd Rail vehicles should be implemented as electric. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Without installing a 3rd rail mod such as mine, 3rd rail EMUs would look much better running just on bare track that forced to run under wire. I think there are two mods currently on the workshop that are 3rd rail EMU type vehicles and they're both implemented as DMUs but just switched the sounds (the Munich and Berlin U-Bahn trains). If there are a substantial number of 3rd rail EMUs that aren't implemented this way that'll hold some sway and this mod can always be changed. However as of right now, and if my reasoning holds true, future vehicles should do the same and an electrified version simply does not have any purpose other than removing functionality.

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I played around a little with making an invisible catenary and it works fine and can be easily implemented. However, I'm still leaning towards keeping the mod as it is. Please voice your opinions below, especially to rebute by points.

On a side note, if anyone knows how to arrange the order of the tracks in the UI or knows how TpF2 arranges them, I'd gladly like to know!
Last edited by Agohonoh; Mar 18, 2020 @ 5:22pm
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
Bas950 Mar 18, 2020 @ 8:25am 
You should maybe make an extra mod for ones with electrified track no caternary.
So you can choose which you want.

unrelated:
Also it might be nice to add this if you can:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=808996270
Agohonoh  [developer] Mar 18, 2020 @ 4:55pm 
I realized there's also another problem with creating an invisible catenary.

Often, there are visual glitches to the 3rd rail due to how it's implemented, like the crossings. In complex junctions as well there often needs to be bits of track that aren't 3rd rail. If there are invisible catenaries then there would either be gaps in the electrification or I would need to add another track type that is just the invisible catenary. It's possible but that's getting pretty clunky.

I'm sorry if I seem stubborn about this. I am open to input and I'm very happy to see that people are invested in my mod but I want to make this mod as user-friendly as possible and not have extra things that aren't necessary. It's already a bit of a hack. I'm hoping that future 3rd rail vehicles will be implemented as DMUs, in which case there's no point in the electrified version. But if someone is either already implementing them as EMUs or can give me a good reason why they should be implemented as EMUs I'm open to changing my mind.

I've edited the main post to flesh out these things.
Last edited by Agohonoh; Mar 18, 2020 @ 5:19pm
industrialcomplex Mar 22, 2020 @ 6:58am 
I agree with Bas950, a separate mod for electrified track with no catenary would be great (personally I'm not even worried about the third rail)
Last edited by industrialcomplex; Mar 22, 2020 @ 6:58am
𝓕𝔁 Mar 30, 2020 @ 1:44pm 
Originally posted by industrialcomplex:
I agree with Bas950, a separate mod for electrified track with no catenary would be great (personally I'm not even worried about the third rail)
+1
B. Bergamot Apr 20, 2020 @ 8:11am 
> I don't think there's any reason why 3rd Rail vehicles should be implemented as electric.

Except that in the UK the ONLY reason the third rail is present is to provide electricity.... I appreciate your other rationale but this is kinda stupid.
Agohonoh  [developer] Apr 20, 2020 @ 8:47am 
Originally posted by DamnGoodNoodles:
> I don't think there's any reason why 3rd Rail vehicles should be implemented as electric.

Except that in the UK the ONLY reason the third rail is present is to provide electricity.... I appreciate your other rationale but this is kinda stupid.

And same with the rest of the world. However, if you're saying this is some realism thing, a catenary powered vehicle can't get power from a 3rd rail and vice versa. To allow a catenary vehicle onto 3rd rail tracks has no realistic reason other than the vehicle gets put in the electric category in the vehicle menu. There's no other reason this affects the gameplay except now catenaried vehicles can run on the tracks, which they can't IRL either. The game's "electricity" is merely a "type" of vehicle and has no means of categorizing it by 3rd rail. 3rd rails in the game are merely cosmetic in either direction and this way looks better.

This is not a justification to me.

Thanks for your input but I'd like it if you wouldn't call my reasons stupid unless you expect me to call your response equally so.
Agohonoh  [developer] Apr 20, 2020 @ 8:51am 
Hello Everyone,

Mad Hatter has made a derivative version that is electrified. I'll maintain this version and you can subscribe to Hatters version if you want the electrification. However, for modders, I encourage you to make the trains diesel as the electrified version suffers from many of the cosmetic irregularities that lead to me want this to be non-electric.

Still open and would love more comments though! I enjoy the conversation.
Last edited by Agohonoh; Apr 20, 2020 @ 8:51am
darrencolson Jun 23, 2023 @ 6:53am 
Originally posted by industrialcomplex:
I agree with Bas950, a separate mod for electrified track with no catenary would be great (personally I'm not even worried about the third rail)
Same here
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