Stellaris

Stellaris

Event Horizon Offset Facility
The Senate May 22, 2020 @ 1:31am
Let’s Talk About Balance
Let’s get straight to the point, the Compound is way too powerful. Now, I currently play on Grand Admiral and x25 Crisis power, but I use ACOT, so that I can beat the empowered crises without having to spam repeatable for decades. On x25, the Compound is damn near unstoppable. Only by upgrading to Stellarite tech from ACOT actually gave me an edge. “But did you get the Stellar Annihilator?” Yes, I got that long before I actually got Stellarite tech. With Alpha tech from ACOT, I could maybe contest them with ten fleets of battleships... if they had like two or three fleets. Basically, I HAD to get Stellarite to actually have a chance of beating the Compound. This basically makes ACOT all but a soft requirement, as not doing so will mean the Compound will stomp the galaxy flat.

Even with Stellarite, I still barely inflict casualties. Yes, I can win with minimal casualties, provided I stay at range, but, for the most part, most of their ships escape alive. Note, escape, not dead. The thing I’ve noticed about the vanilla crisises is that they basically have No Retreat, meaning that every ship in the system will die and not run away if crippled. The Compound must be running Hit and Run as their war doctrine because they keep escaping, preventing me from inflcting meaningful losses. No joke, I’ve done millions of hull points worth of damage to them. And yet I barely get any kills. How much health do they have? Surely the number is astronomical if there somehow are significant numbers of survivors from that high a damage. Their tendency to flee has the unfortunate side effect of getting to the Compound’s home system a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nightmare. Oh, you killed ten percent of their hundreds of ships? They run away and reappear at the Compound’s home system at full strength, making your battered fleets unable to finish them off. No joke, I beat a bunch of their fleets as it entered their system adjacent their home system, and literally an in game week later, they reappeared at full strength.

Now, how would we balance this? For starters, prevent the Compound from being able to disengage from combat. Aren’t they the “uLtImAtE LiFe FoRm?” If they were, they wouldn’t run away like a little ♥♥♥♥♥ and instead would try to prove their superiority by battling to the death. That way you can actually fight a decisive battle that meaningfully affects the rest of the war with the Compound. Reducing their health in all categories would also make it easier to beat.
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Kreitani  [developer] May 22, 2020 @ 9:19am 
Before reading any of this, I just fixed a bug today.... there was a modifier that was meant to be set to reduce it's damage/health/etc by 25% for vanilla players, instead buffing them for 75%, I've updated to fix this.. But you're quite right, balance is still a thing I need to work on
TNS May 22, 2020 @ 2:30pm 
IMO you might need to make them more in line with the vanilla crisis once you take out the invulnerability flag. Compensate by giving em reinforcement fleets that are comparable to ones like the Contingency or Invaders or make the Annihilator alot more powerful.

I have repeatables disabled on my end so it makes it harder to deal with.
The Senate May 22, 2020 @ 5:31pm 
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2105706615

It is not just the health. I had over 460 battleships, dozens of titans. Yet, somehow they kill battleships on stellarite tech and barely have inflicted casualties.
Kreitani  [developer] May 23, 2020 @ 2:24am 
if you have some suggestions as towards what I should change, I'd be interested in hearing it. Try not to do walls of text tho please, I have problems digesting it.
The Senate May 23, 2020 @ 11:50am 
Ok. I will refrain from doing so in the future. First thing I would change is to prevent the Compound from having ships disengage from combat. This makes fighting decisive battles against them a pain, as you will never inflict enough casualties for it to matter.
Kreitani  [developer] May 23, 2020 @ 2:53pm 
I was not aware that they could do that
The Senate May 23, 2020 @ 5:18pm 
Well it's either that or my display is bugged. Each engagement only kills a handful of Compound ships according the battle summary.
The Senate May 23, 2020 @ 8:59pm 
Also Ive noted that they get fleets nearly the instant I destroy any. How long do they take to get reinforcements?
ViS May 24, 2020 @ 7:37pm 
i played against the crisis on 25x GA without acot or gigas, basically EHOF was my only mod that changed the game in any way
the way difficulty scaling works, you need to increase the amount of fleets and ships you have by a LOT
i was able to engage 1 compound fleet at a time with about 8k navy cap of bs/titans running arc emittor and cloud lightning (best way to deal with small numbers of very powerful ships, going directly for the hull) and i would loe 5-10% per engagement
i had ~50 repeatables for shield/armor/energy weps+attack and both stike craft techs around 30 or more
eventually i won with 13k navy cap and 100 repeatables but it wasnt easy

as for disengaging, its the combat report thats bugged, the ships dont jump away from combat

and @kreitani, i think most poeople would suggest as i have, less powerful ships but far more numerous to create a more aggressive but engageable enemy :)

my estimates are that the compound is 50-75x stronger than the contingency for an average fleet, despite what the games "fleet power" claims :p
Foolish Mortal Jun 1, 2020 @ 9:37am 
The first nation to rush the EHOF + jump drives gets a massive combat advantage. (Ill call them nation 1 and the non-EHOF empire nation 2) Naton 1 can get isolated systems in the middle of enemy territory that they can jump out of but nation 2 can't jump into. This forces the nation 2 to stay and guard that area or get backstabbed as soon as they send their fleets to attack nation 1. Its like nation 1 has a one-way wormhole right into nation 2's territory. Gateways give similar functionality but they need to be taken and nations can choose not to build/activate any whereas they can't do anything about the EHOF systems.

If both nations have one the war still boils down to who can take the others EHOF first. Since both nations are limited to 1 EHOF capturing it basically gives you immunity to counterattack until the other nation takes it back. This lets the nation holding both EHOFs force a doomstack combat as the nation without them needs to take their EHOF back or stay on the defensive the entire war.

I think it would be a little more balanced if ships in systems that need to be discovered by the EHOF get a -50% or -75% jump drive range penalty so defenders at least have some chokepoints where they can put fleets or strong starbases to destroy the jump drive weakened fleets.

I use a couple mods modifying jump drives so it is possible that one makes it possible to jump out of the system and you aren't supposed to be able to jump out. This is mostly theory combined with a bit of playtesting. It might not really be that bad in multiplayer. Also I know the mod description says that it is an important facility and that its power could lead to controlling the galaxy.
Last edited by Foolish Mortal; Jun 1, 2020 @ 9:37am
Kreitani  [developer] Jun 1, 2020 @ 9:50am 
Yea, that's been a thought of mine, but it hasn't come up so much yet. However, there will be a way of taking other nations cohesive systems from them in the next update. But maybe I do still need to do something about it before that become possible.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198295134343/screenshots/#scrollTop=0

I'm Sorry but the amount of ships and fleets is ridiculous
Kreitani  [developer] Jul 1, 2020 @ 9:27am 
that... should not happen o.o
I'm not sure why that is though...

Possibly an incompatibility with another mod
Kreitani  [developer] Jul 1, 2020 @ 11:33am 
Shouldn't be compatibility I wouldn't have thought. How far have the compound expanded? Their fleet cap is really high, but there is a cap
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