At least limit how close you can place trader zones close to enemies, such as bugs, raiders, mechanoids. That way its a little more balanced.

This would require more calculations, make this mod a lot more impactful in performance. Think on all teh additional checks that would have to be added.

You can simply not cheese it.

Originally posted by Leugimimi:

This would require more calculations, make this mod a lot more impactful in performance. Think on all teh additional checks that would have to be added.

You can simply not cheese it.

You are saying the mod developer can not do it? I am not a modder, except for xml files, so I would not know. But it sounds like it would be possible to add limitations close to "enemies". Mostly its about mechanoids and bugs, since raiders usually end up getting killed by caravans anyway, IF they both occupy the same space. This is because caravans always park at your front in vanilla.

Also, it should be kept as vanilla as possible. In vanilla you can not send caravans to kill bugs or mechanoids (or hunt down raider).

So you'd want a check to see how close the Spot is to an enemy?

- Bugs : This would help with
- Raids : You can circumvent by placing the caravan in front of your base to act as a meat shield, again more cheese.

The easiest way of doing it is for the player to not abuse it.

Originally posted by Tad:

So you'd want a check to see how close the Spot is to an enemy?

- Bugs : This would help with
- Raids : You can circumvent by placing the caravan in front of your base to act as a meat shield, again more cheese.

The easiest way of doing it is for the player to not abuse it.

When "cheats" and bugs exists a player is for the most time going to abuse it. Which is why I at the moment do not play with this mod. I want to, but its a bit broken.

The way I see it is like I said, you should be able to put the spot anywhere unless a hostile enemy of any kind is nearby of that spot. It should say something like this if you try
-"You can not place caravan spot close to an enemy".

I am simply offering you feedback. I am not alone in these thoughts, many people do not like abusive/op mechanics.

Originally posted by Greenpakto:

When "cheats" and bugs exists a player is for the most time going to abuse it. Which is why I at the moment do not play with this mod. I want to, but its a bit broken.

The way I see it is like I said, you should be able to put the spot anywhere unless a hostile enemy of any kind is nearby of that spot. It should say something like this if you try
-"You can not place caravan spot close to an enemy".

I am simply offering you feedback. I am not alone in these thoughts, many people do not like abusive/op mechanics.

I totally get that, I'm just feeding back that there is always going to be a way to abuse any kind of system that gets implemented.

One way it could check to see if a Raid Event is active, and look at stopping the placement of the spot if it is?

That on top of the perimeter check could catch most events like this.

The problem I have is that making such a large change to the mod, would mean that it is a fundamentally different mod then. Some people like the mod for the ability to cheese events, whilst others like yourself don't.

Originally posted by Tad:

Originally posted by Greenpakto:

When "cheats" and bugs exists a player is for the most time going to abuse it. Which is why I at the moment do not play with this mod. I want to, but its a bit broken.

The way I see it is like I said, you should be able to put the spot anywhere unless a hostile enemy of any kind is nearby of that spot. It should say something like this if you try
-"You can not place caravan spot close to an enemy".

I am simply offering you feedback. I am not alone in these thoughts, many people do not like abusive/op mechanics.

I totally get that, I'm just feeding back that there is always going to be a way to abuse any kind of system that gets implemented.

One way it could check to see if a Raid Event is active, and look at stopping the placement of the spot if it is?

That on top of the perimeter check could catch most events like this.

The problem I have is that making such a large change to the mod, would mean that it is a fundamentally different mod then. Some people like the mod for the ability to cheese events, whilst others like yourself don't.

Those two fixes would definitely work very well together. The mod would be slightly different then I agree, but for the most part id say its for the better. In the end its of course up to you. Perhaps you can add an option in the mod where you can turn off or on these "features"...

In any way I wanted to catch you and let you know my thoughts and suggestions, and now we have spoken.
If you do decide to make these changes I would appreciate if you just wrote in this thread to let me know. I personally would very much like to see this added into the game.

Thanks for listening, taking in the feedback and discussing with me.

It'd be really cool if you can implement a feature to stop the abuse of trading spots. You could also create option so that people themselves can decide if they want that or not.

Stopping the placement while a raid is active might not be the most effective solution though. Maybe forbid placing trade spots when in range of a turret? (since killboxes are filled with them) Though you would also have to check if the turret's range has no line of sight AND to auto remove trade spots when a turret is being placed near one. But that's just an idea. This solution would also not kill the performance lul. And again, restricting to move the spot for a quarter of a year could also help.

Those are obviously just suggestion and ideas, but it would also make this mod stand out.

Don't you take a pretty big faction hit if members of a trade caravan die? If Randy wants to send you a heavily armored, charge rifle wielding trade convoy from the big powerful neighbor, then send a tribal raid right after, I mean, I guess Randy just wants to see what happens? But aside from that, the risk of sending your caravan into danger against whatever threats are on the map, that's a risk you can take.

One suggestion, borrow how Hospitality checks for map dangers before allowing visitors to spawn, and instead of letting the trade convoy spawn and then move to your custom trade spot, have them see the danger and decide to send a message telling you of their fears and not show up instead?

That's an interesting idea, could possibly extend that so any current traders will attempt to flee if a raid occurs too.

That would prevent people abusing the placement system to block raiders with caravans.

Another option could be to still pop up the "will you keep us safe" request, and if they do wind up having to fight stuff like bugs or mechs and they wind up taking losses, make the (configurable) relations penalty a bit stiffer?

I could also see giving the player three options: 1: Go away, it's not safe here. (No big deal, see you next time, no faction relationship change, or maybe a small + for being honest) 2: Come at your own risk, but it's dangerous (minor faction penalty if they take losses, but a good chance they won't come depending on how they think they stack up against the threat) and 3: We'll keep you safe (big penalties if the player does not in fact keep them safe, possibly some bonus if they are actually kept safe during their visit)

Originally posted by Tad:

That's an interesting idea, could possibly extend that so any current traders will attempt to flee if a raid occurs too.

That would prevent people abusing the placement system to block raiders with caravans.

Interesting idea indeed. Unsure about if caravans should fight or flee if being attacked. Because vanilla already have this in the game as caravans are always on your doorstep where raider fights happen.

OK why has this not been suggested yet?
Instead of an incorporeal “spot” create a building, let's call it a beacon or whatnot.

Give it 2 "safety checks".

First, the building needs to be powered. Doesn't have to be a lot of power, but does HAVE to be powered.
Have fun building power plants and/or conduits towards the monsters you want dead.

Second, if the building is damaged, do something bad for the player.
Trigger a psy-wave, or a solar flare, or emp the base, or make a faction get angry and send a raid.

You don't need to hog CPU checking if an enemy is close when you can rely on natural methods such as these.

But putting all of it aside for a second...

THIS WHOLE THREAD IS PURE HOGWASH!

Originally posted by WiseIncognito:

When "cheats" and bugs exists a player is for the most time going to abuse it. Which is why I at the moment do not play with this mod.

You are not thinking much of players are you?
I mean I acknowledge that some will, but so what? That's all between them and their own built-in anti-cheat system.
There are really only 2 cases where a developer should bother fixing an exploit.
Case one – it's a competitive game. Which RW is not.
Case two – it's an exploit that is easy to naturally trigger AKA hard to avoid in the course of normal gameplay. Which this, once again, is not.
YOU are the one placing that marker, if you want to cheese then cheese, if you don't want to cheese don't cheese. It's not like that marker can jump into the nearest cave or ruins of it's own accord, can it?
I mean, I get wanting the anti-compulsion care package, I really do, but going this far is just pain ridiculous. Work on your own willpower man, sound like you need it even more than I do.

Besides, even if this mod actually did send traders to kill monsters for me on it's own, I'd still use it, and frankly can't even imagine not wanting to. Existing spawns are barely relevant and are nothing compared to weirdness of traders taking strolls in my freezer or the dangers of them hosting picnics in my mine field or under my turrets.

Link whether you can assign them to a zone/area with faction reputation. If they die you lose rep anyway so you'll eventually lose the ability to assign them if you abuse it.