I've been playing this character quite a bit, and there are some moves I personally feel should be buffed. I understand that most of these get better under the right "Dream State", but all the other moves are still decent, even when not in their favorable state, so i feel like it would be good if these moves were buffed in order to be useful as well.

1. Face dream is far to weak and far to hard to land considering how rare it is to get it through normal play, and how hard it is to get intentionally. I would recommend either making it an instant kill, or making it cover the entire screen.

2. Forward smash is incredibly bad. not only does it take forever to come out, but it doesn't launch the opponent very far (as in it doesn't kill zettaburn at ledge when they are at over 100%) does less damage than down smash, and to top it all off, can't hit the opponent when they are to close to you. I would recommend completely changing this move.

3. Dash attack being a projectile is a little weird, considering you aren't able to do anything while its active. I think it would be a really fun move if you could jump out of it after activating it, or a really good move if it had more knockback and couldn't be reflected.

4. Down special is useless. Because it is a counter, you can't use it to combo the opponent, and the fact it teleports you to where you are on the dream map, while neat, makes it impossible to plan around and inconsistent at the best of times. My best idea for it is to remove its status as a counter and make it able to be used to instantly teleport, but make it only usable on the ground. either that, or change the move entirely.

5. Up special is too slow. I don't think it needs to go higher, especially due to its dream buffed version, but it needs to get everything done faster so you aren't a sitting duck for forever. maybe also give it super armor to reflect its translucent appearance.

6. Neutral air is bad, even in its two variants. It does very little knockback, the second hit is super slow, and while the green lady version does amazing damage, it still ends up being too weak to use over down air in most cases. I recommend buffing it around the board, except for the green variant, only buff speed for that one.

Overall, its a really fun character, and I have been having a blast messing around with them. Their moves are really creative and its fun finding new tricks you can do with them. Take all my criticisms with a grain of salt, as it could just be my playstyle making me think these moves are bad. Ask other people what they think before making changes.

I can't wait to see how this character improves in the future.

Thank you for your response!

Much of what you have said is already planned to be fixed or to be rehauled, actually! I have a bit of a history making fighters extra underwhelming on release, heh... Keep a lookout for the upcoming patch after the next Shy Guy update!

Face Dream: I'll definitely look into it. It was hard nerfed just a bit before release out of personal concern (being able to kill around 40%), and due to how consistent I was able to get it, I nerfed it pretty hard. I'll consider making the move a bit more terrifying in the future, but having it be an insta-kill is a bit much considering that's a potential of 1 instant kill per game.

Fsmash: Was one of the last moves and was admittedly very rushed! It'll have more consistent hitboxes and better knockback values in the next patch for sure!

Dattack: BIG overhaul planned that, while probably not what's expected, will absolutely buff the move!

Dspecial: Don't forget that it can be used on the Fsmash and Uair projectiles, for more intricate planning! Also, the intent of the move was admittedly to help LSD easily retreat from more hairy situations, seeing as she's a generally slower character as-is, especially as an anti-edgeguard/anti-juggling measure, situationally.

Uspecial: A very intentional weakness! I was concerned about the moveset all around being potentially too overpowering, and this would be a measure to give her a deliberate fault. I'll look into it though, it does have more negative points than positive.

Nair: Is getting an overhaul which could give it a better purpose! However, the move is very heavily intended as a combo move, and it has a ton of disjoint, which those two aspects have been consistently good on my end.

Thanks for the very thorough look, I appreciate the insights you've given! (And I have to admit, you've given me the most constructive response out of any balance reviewer I've had before, thank you!)

No problem, and thanks for the response! like i said, i have a very aggressive playstyle, so I'm heavily biased in that regard.

Can't wait for the next update!

up tilt seems really powerful as an edge guarding tool, will provide more detail soon

@Uwak! I saw what you meant - I changed the kb angle for Utilt in the most recent patch to make it hopefully less oppressive.

i like the concept of up b being very risky, but i think it really needs to be dash cancelable

With regards to the dspecial counter, how about reworking it to be a command grab? Where the position that the player is on the dream map determines the angle at which the enemy is launched? I love the character's design and hoped that the "touch" mechanic could be more useful than a difficult to use counter. The player can plan more effectively with a command grab whilst still maintaining that quirky LSD dream emulator flavour. Just my two cents!

Oh, the move is absolutely not meant to be and will not be offensive in any capacity, and is purely a movement option to make up for her lack of general speed. You know you can use Dspecial to Link with your own Fstrong and Uair, right? This gives the move much more utility than just using it when being hit, though using it while being hit can get you out of some sticky situations.

I do know that it links with Fstrong and Uair but I don't see any practical use in doing so; with Fstrong I'd rather jump after the opponent to follow up with an aerial of my choice rather than use Touch on it, and with Uair, the window to use Touch on it is so slim and predictable that I really don't think using it as an escape method or movement option is viable.

I understand that you don't want this move to be offensive, it just seems a shame to me that LSD's signature ability is dedicated to a move with such little utility. I want to play around LSD's gimmick of dream-hopping, but in actual gameplay I find myself never using this ability, often getting punished for trying to use it as intended.

Without reworking the move completely, it could be changed to stun foes that activate it? Depending on how far from the centre you are on the dream map, it could stun for longer?

I've just been imagining potential combos and mixups that could be had if it was changed to a command grab that launches based on the position on the dream map... Using it on a recovering opponent while having a downer dream would be devastating >:D

Yeah, now that's something I can look more into, helping negate unintended weaknesses. I can't promise it'll change much, but it's relatively easy to add some extra hitpause onto an opponent. I'll see if there's a balanced way to implement that.

A surprise teleport is still a very powerful tool regardless, which a lot of characters don't get the luxury of having. I'd suggest to keep thinking creatively about ways to utilize Link that maybe you hadn't seriously considered. Sending opponents offstage with Fstrong at higher percents and then doing a Link to Dair is something I've done quite a bit, and there are ways to cancel the startup of Uair by landing early.

I'm sorry, but you'll have to look elsewhere for a command grab type character. That isn't the playstyle this fighter was designed around.

@ViviVinya i'm pretty late to the buff face dream party but I have a suggestion for improving the move. if you make it travel less up, you could potentially open up strings into it through up air or grayman. The issue I have with the move is it takes 30~ seconds to charge a move that's impossible to hit. I would appreciate this, but of course you are free to change the character the way you want. Also to end on a good note, this has been my workshop main since launch and I am so glad we had someone as creative as you to make these cool characters!