RimWorld

RimWorld

[JPT] Open The Windows
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
jptrrs  [developer] Mar 4, 2020 @ 4:33am
Why not use Stone to make windows? (And how you can do this yourself.)
First, let's clarify what's a window and what isn't. Please, take a look at this: https://i.imgur.com/qyBkpTs.png

Then, I'm not surprised you ask that. The game has conditioned us that everything that's usually made out of wood can also be made out of stone: doors, furniture, campfire... well, ok, not everything. But let's think about it for a second: why some things use one material while others don't? Vents, for instance, are only metal. Same with eletric equipment. I mean, in the real world, back in the 50s, there were wooden TVs, why not in the rimworld?
Well, you can certainly mod that in. But I have a theory: maybe... I don't know... maybe having different materials in the game is not an accident. Maybe it is like that to give the player something to consider when building his or her base. You know, resource managing...
Some games don't go into this kind of boring detail. In Homeworld, for instance, there are only RUs, and everything is made out of that (ok, I just gave off my age now...). But that game isn't exactly focused on resource managing... RimWorld very much is!
So here's my theory: a resource in a strategy game is a metaphor from the real world resource. It's not exaclty the same thing, it's twisted around to serve the game mechanics and entretain the player. But it's modeled after the real world thing so we can relate to it and know what to do with it.
Having said that, let's consider real world windows. Look around you: no one, at any time in history, ever used stone to make windows! People engineered openings in stone walls. But then they eventually filled it in with wooden, wickwork, paper and finally glass shutters. When I created a window for the game, I wasn't considering it just as a hole on the wall. I wanted the device that filled that hole. So that's my metaphor.
Sure, Tynan allowed for doors to be made out of stone. But dig deeper: first, there's a massive drawback, which is the opening speed. Plus, the doors are essential, It wouldn't be reasonable to ask the players to go without doors in a map without wood, right? Notice there is the real-world metaphor (door, stone) and the game needs (passages, available resources), and a compromise between the two.
"Oh no! You're breaking my immersion!!". Sorry, but that's game design for you.
So, here's my thinking on how to put windows in the game: it should be a device mounted on walls for light and venting purposes, part lamp and part vent. It should be a factor to consider on base-designing and it should not be a given, easy thing to build. And it should behave like real-world windows. Therefore... it should be wood, metal and glass!

If, you followed me so far and still believes you need stone windows, I won't argue anymore. In fact, so that we don't need to talk about this anymore, I'm going to teach you how to hack this mod and get what you want. Do this:

1. Locate the mod's defs folder on your hard drive. Typically that's C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\294100\1971860929\Defs
2. Open Things.xml in your Notepad, then find the name of the window you want to be made out of stone. Look for <stuffCategories> a few lines under that name. You'll see the material categories listed there, between <li> and </li>. All you have to do is insert a line under the last item (before </stuffCategories>) and type <li>Stony</li>. Don't touch anything else, save and exit. NOTE: that file will probably get overwritten when the mod updates, so make a backup.
3. Restart the game and enjoy!
Last edited by jptrrs; May 20, 2021 @ 8:58am
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Showing 1-15 of 34 comments
NRFBToyStore Apr 2, 2020 @ 7:28pm 
Myself, I like stone windows, but I was obsessed with castles when I was younger... Also the random wood spot in my GREEN stone castle ingame was annoying, SO... I appreciate you leaving the modding info here, BAM, i got some stone windows now!!! You rock!
jptrrs  [developer] Apr 9, 2020 @ 10:45am 
Originally posted by NRFBToyStore:
Myself, I like stone windows, but I was obsessed with castles when I was younger... Also the random wood spot in my GREEN stone castle ingame was annoying, SO... I appreciate you leaving the modding info here, BAM, i got some stone windows now!!! You rock!
Check this out: https://i.imgur.com/qyBkpTs.png
Robosium Apr 19, 2020 @ 10:51am 
Now if you look very carefully in the picture you linked to you can notice that in the IRL picture there is wall both below and above the hole and the window and the window is a merely a filling to the hole, thus there should be windows with the surrounding wall made of stone but still steel and wood requirments to explain how you filled the hole.
jptrrs  [developer] Apr 19, 2020 @ 11:38am 
There's no below and above in a topdown 2D game, Robosium, so what you describe is already in the game. I just moded the hole-filling device. ;-)
Robosium Apr 19, 2020 @ 12:34pm 
You made a wall with a hole not a hole filling device, impressive as it may be there is still the problem of the wall surrounding the fancy hole are unable to be built out of more element resistant materials such as stone. So, fix the walls surrounding your fancy holes and allow them to be built of stone.

If you want to make it seem that there are some wooden components still needed then leave some wood in the build requirements and be done with it.
jptrrs  [developer] Apr 19, 2020 @ 12:40pm 
I have no idea what you're talking about. The windows on this mod don't affect the surrounding walls, they can be built out of whatever you want. You mentioned the picture I linked, well, look at it! First frame below "in Rimworld" is a window with surrounding stone walls.
The mod doesn't build holes, on the contrary, it allows you to fill holes on your walls.
Last edited by jptrrs; Apr 19, 2020 @ 12:44pm
Robosium Apr 19, 2020 @ 11:54pm 
If you want windows taking up room from floor to ceiling then just say that they are big windows and don't try any of that "filling holes you make with walls" stuff.
jptrrs  [developer] Apr 20, 2020 @ 6:04am 
"Do this, do that, don't try that...", what makes you believe you have a say on what I do?
You may make whatever you want from the mod design, I couldn't care less. If you need that much mental gymnastics to understand the windows are meant to fill a wall tile - which is exactly the same as filling a hole on a wall - by all means, go ahead. But you have no business coming here to issue commands. Is that understood?

Robosium Apr 20, 2020 @ 6:13am 
Thanks for confirming you cannot tell the difference between lack of wall and a hole in it, I'll be off to produce a higher quality window mod.
jptrrs  [developer] Apr 20, 2020 @ 7:20am 
Originally posted by Robosium:
Thanks for confirming you cannot tell the difference between lack of wall and a hole in it, I'll be off to produce a higher quality window mod.
Good luck!
UltraDelux Apr 25, 2020 @ 11:44pm 
i gotta say id like to be able to build a window out of stone too, well not the actual window obviously, but lacking the option to have a choice in more than one of the building ingredients (like stone/steel/wood for the wall, then steel/wood/what-have-you for the frame, then of course glass for the glass) i see why youve made it the way you did. the main support for stone windows would be aesthetics, which is the reason ive found myself here. luckily, thanks to your post, ive found what im looking for... assuming i can manage the task of changing a few lines. if i can manage that i can probably go make some better mods than you. that was a joke. oh for flattery i like your beds mod too. anyways im going to go try this now.
jptrrs  [developer] Apr 26, 2020 @ 7:14am 
@UltraDelux: Thanks! Yeah, having only one choosable ingredient is what makes what people want impossible. But that's fine IMO, the game would be unnecessarily complicated otherwise. Also not optimal from a aesthetic point of view, since the game visual language asks for elements that stand out, not blend in. Everytime someone gets upset by how the windows contrast with the walls the mod achieves what was intended. ;-)
Lurmey Jun 9, 2020 @ 10:22am 
Here's an idea: Make the windows work like BetterVents, such that they actually are an addition to walls rather than replacing them. That way, windows can continue to be made from wood and metal, people won't complain about an ugly section of wood in their stone walls (because the textures will have transparency), and people who want medieval "windows" (a hole in a stone wall that doesn't allow people to walk through) they can build embrasures!

Or alternate to the embrasure, you can add a stone window that is literally just a rustic window, but replaces the wall and doesn't open or close. Just an embrasure with a prettier texture and the ability to transmit light.
Last edited by Lurmey; Jun 9, 2020 @ 10:24am
Lurmey Jun 9, 2020 @ 10:26am 
If you'll point me in the right direction, jptrrs, I'll gladly make a mod to patch these changes in so you can keep your mod the way it is. I just don't know which values need to be changed.

Also, I see the issue some people have with the mod. It seems to stem from a different view on what exactly a window is and translating that into the game. Your mod adds buildings which represent both a window frame (hole in the wall where a window should go) and the window itself (the glass and/or shutter). Whereas people seem to expect and want only the latter of those two, the actual window part.

My idea above would solve that, as the window frame would be fulfilled by the role of the wall itself, allowing people to keep continuous sections of one material, while the window building added by the mod would only affect the texture on the side of the wall, adding a thin wooden or metal casing surrounding the shutter or glass.

Simply, I think people just want the top of the windows to mimic the material they build their walls out of, and the easiest way I can think to do that is to make the windows a partly-transparent texture that is built on top of walls like how BetterVents does it.
Last edited by Lurmey; Jun 9, 2020 @ 10:46am
jptrrs  [developer] Jun 9, 2020 @ 5:58pm 
Captain Lurmey: This is why it wouldn't work and the reason I didn't do it that way:
https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/1971860929/3345546664208795804/
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