nice

Wow, you have been busy. So nice to hear all this! Looking forward to all the changes, especially the overhaul of the palaces in Rome. Not that it was bad, I always felt this is an area where more opulence and grand scale wouldn't be out of place. And I really like how you're breaking it up into multiple scenes, which lets you make it even bigger without the lag of a massive scene. This is one area where it's hard to do too much, IMO. :)

I'm kind of following the logic of why you'd have a debt to inherit from Nero, but be careful that it doesn't have unintended mechanical consequences, like suddenly not being able to pay your troops. It might work better as a purely rethorical device that doesn't actually impact your treasury balance and gets resolved through quests or gradual investments from the player as their leisure, likely after the civil war if one happens. If you have the knowledge and inspiration, it would be really nice if the completion of reconstruction was phased and showcased different areas of Rome. I think most people, including me, imagine Rome as a whole without thinking too much what was inside it besides the palace, but it probably had a temple district, the harbor area in Ostia, some kind of trade districts, stuff organised around Campus Martius like the Augustus Mausoleum, crafts guild areas, entertainment districts, etc. Given the prevalence of client-patron relationships in their social organizations, there were probably whole districts organized around prominent families and populated by people affiliated with them, etc. This can be used both for flavor from just describing to the player various places of interest and to give the payer interesting choices as to these places fate without too much of a mechanical impact. e.g. to rebuild the tailor district, do you want to pay more yourself, or enact new fees and taxes to make the merchants pay a share. One is cheaper, but some resent it, the other makes people love you more.

Either way, great features upcoming.

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

Wow, you have been busy. So nice to hear all this! Looking forward to all the changes, especially the overhaul of the palaces in Rome. Not that it was bad, I always felt this is an area where more opulence and grand scale wouldn't be out of place. And I really like how you're breaking it up into multiple scenes, which lets you make it even bigger without the lag of a massive scene. This is one area where it's hard to do too much, IMO. :)

I'm kind of following the logic of why you'd have a debt to inherit from Nero, but be careful that it doesn't have unintended mechanical consequences, like suddenly not being able to pay your troops. It might work better as a purely rethorical device that doesn't actually impact your treasury balance and gets resolved through quests or gradual investments from the player as their leisure, likely after the civil war if one happens. If you have the knowledge and inspiration, it would be really nice if the completion of reconstruction was phased and showcased different areas of Rome. I think most people, including me, imagine Rome as a whole without thinking too much what was inside it besides the palace, but it probably had a temple district, the harbor area in Ostia, some kind of trade districts, stuff organised around Campus Martius like the Augustus Mausoleum, crafts guild areas, entertainment districts, etc. Given the prevalence of client-patron relationships in their social organizations, there were probably whole districts organized around prominent families and populated by people affiliated with them, etc. This can be used both for flavor from just describing to the player various places of interest and to give the payer interesting choices as to these places fate without too much of a mechanical impact. e.g. to rebuild the tailor district, do you want to pay more yourself, or enact new fees and taxes to make the merchants pay a share. One is cheaper, but some resent it, the other makes people love you more.

Either way, great features upcoming.

According to Tacitus (I think): Rome had 14 districts, 3 were completely devastated, 7 more were reduced to a few scorched and mangled ruins and only 4 completely escaped damage.
Though Nero did the rebuilding and also issued fire protection measures. But this strained the treasure, I think was (one of the reasons) for the revolts against his rule.
Of course I will not add it as normal debts in native sense, this would be just insane :D.
I am currently most favouring the quest, but with options to let other people pay, like as you said too, special taxes, or having aristocrats/families pay it, looting holy sides (like temples in Greek or Italy, maybe even Olympia or Delphi)
Also regarding families, there is something I though about recently: I think due to the constant purges issued by Emperors like Nero, the old family structures eroded, and new families arrised, only to disappear because of another purge. I think this is one of the reasons for the down-fall of Rome.

Looks like you're well ahead of my thinking on how to best implement it. Will be fun to see when it comes out.

"Also regarding families, there is something I though about recently: I think due to the constant purges issued by Emperors like Nero, the old family structures eroded, and new families arrised, only to disappear because of another purge. I think this is one of the reasons for the down-fall of Rome."

This is also something I read recently, though I wouldn't be able to tell you where. Because each emperor tried to concentrate power by fighting whoever was on top, the wealthy families by the time fall of Rome happened were not necessarily the same as during the republic. Is any of this inspiring for you in terms of any particular game functionality? I can imagine some interesting things involving the player emperor playing families against each other, picking internal allies, or just ruthlessly destroying those falling out of their favor. It's a bit tricky because in MB this kind of politics is lord relations, which is kind of limited, but maybe some things are still possible.

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

Looks like you're well ahead of my thinking on how to best implement it. Will be fun to see when it comes out.

"Also regarding families, there is something I though about recently: I think due to the constant purges issued by Emperors like Nero, the old family structures eroded, and new families arrised, only to disappear because of another purge. I think this is one of the reasons for the down-fall of Rome."

This is also something I read recently, though I wouldn't be able to tell you where. Because each emperor tried to concentrate power by fighting whoever was on top, the wealthy families by the time fall of Rome happened were not necessarily the same as during the republic. Is any of this inspiring for you in terms of any particular game functionality? I can imagine some interesting things involving the player emperor playing families against each other, picking internal allies, or just ruthlessly destroying those falling out of their favor. It's a bit tricky because in MB this kind of politics is lord relations, which is kind of limited, but maybe some things are still possible.

problem is: in warband lords need to be predefined. I can't generate a new one out of nowhere. And if I add a new lords as reserve then this would cause additional lag, as there are many many loops over all lords (also the ones not active). This would be, I think, better be made in Bannerlord where you already have all such stuff with families etc.
Though, another way would be once the lord is dead he can reoccure, but I would need to write a code which changes his face and armor (it would be weird to have reincarnations lol). That shouldnt be too difficult, but I would also need to remove all family ties from this lord. And then he would spawn without family, may not be a problem as it is already possible to marry. But having children would be too difficult and not worth.
But without children, one would sooner or later come to the point where no families exist. (if the player continous to purge people).
And making it available for the AI too would be a very bad idea. (and not necessary, as purging is already done with events, and the characters killed are not running around as lords)

I think you are talking something too ambitious and that is hard to implement. I'd limit it to something much simpler. Not hundreds of families that all automatically battle with each other and sometimes you interfere, but just a few unused ones that you get flavor events/quests to bring into prominence, similarly to how you can make your companions into lords today. The only difference is that right now it's just a dialog where: "Hey, I want to make you a lord. - Cool, thanks, I won't let you down, Emperor!" and this could become a quest line with drama and reasoning that ends up with a new lord or two, who are loyal to you. I wouldn't go much further than that or you'll risk re-implementing Crusader Kings in a toolset not fit for the purpose. :)

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

I think you are talking something too ambitious and that is hard to implement. I'd limit it to something much simpler. Not hundreds of families that all automatically battle with each other and sometimes you interfere, but just a few unused ones that you get flavor events/quests to bring into prominence, similarly to how you can make your companions into lords today. The only difference is that right now it's just a dialog where: "Hey, I want to make you a lord. - Cool, thanks, I won't let you down, Emperor!" and this could become a quest line with drama and reasoning that ends up with a new lord or two, who are loyal to you. I wouldn't go much further than that or you'll risk re-implementing Crusader Kings in a toolset not fit for the purpose. :)

okay, you mean just a quest for some companions (instead of having them running around in taverns). sounds intriguing

Happy New Year! I'm very excited to hear about these developments, and am looking forward to playing this mod again.

Originally posted by Aurelius:

Happy New Year! I'm very excited to hear about these developments, and am looking forward to playing this mod again.

oh thank you!

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

I think you are talking something too ambitious and that is hard to implement. I'd limit it to something much simpler. Not hundreds of families that all automatically battle with each other and sometimes you interfere, but just a few unused ones that you get flavor events/quests to bring into prominence, similarly to how you can make your companions into lords today. The only difference is that right now it's just a dialog where: "Hey, I want to make you a lord. - Cool, thanks, I won't let you down, Emperor!" and this could become a quest line with drama and reasoning that ends up with a new lord or two, who are loyal to you. I wouldn't go much further than that or you'll risk re-implementing Crusader Kings in a toolset not fit for the purpose. :)

This actually brings me to an idea: Nerva, the later emperor, was ~30 years during mod time frame. He had a sister too. His family (he and sister) could emerge per event or something like that. (so player helps Nerva to become more popular by giving him a governorship or whatever the player decides)
I must say I find this idea more and more appealing. I will add it to the to-do list.

Originally posted by BGMaxi:

This actually brings me to an idea: Nerva, the later emperor, was ~30 years during mod time frame. He had a sister too. His family (he and sister) could emerge per event or something like that. (so player helps Nerva to become more popular by giving him a governorship or whatever the player decides)
I must say I find this idea more and more appealing. I will add it to the to-do list.

Nice! I knew nothing about Nerva, but reading about him now, his story fits perfectly into something like this.

I also didnt know anything about him. i stumpled over him by accident when I was reading about the Pisonian conspiracy. I think I will make him occur earlier, but only during a Nero event. (since Nero liked him due his help in the conspiracy) Then later, once player is Emperor, having the change to grant him a governorship would be funny.

EDIT: Just some thoughts I want to share about how to implement it: I think an event wouldn't be a good way. It would be more natural if there is a bunch of people waiting either in a special sector of the palace or the town hall in Rome, who are seeking for audience with the Emperor for their matters. I already have some ideas about such random people who have some generic stories, where the player has option to either grant or refuse the request (with only little consequences, just for flavour) I could but Nerva (and others) also there. I think it would be quite natural to have it like this.
On the other hand I would also reduce number of normal companions (only those who dont have their own unique backstories)

Poking around the board checking what the upcoming features were in your last blog, I suddenly realize that I never saw your last post's edit a month ago, haha.

"a bunch of people waiting either in a special sector of the palace or the town hall in Rome, who are seeking for audience with the Emperor for their matters. I already have some ideas about such random people who have some generic stories, where the player has option to either grant or refuse the request (with only little consequences, just for flavour)"

This would be great for immersion regardless of the Nerva content even! A proper ancient ruler's palace should have subjects looking for stuff or offering stuff for favor. Would be really cool if these people's requests can be repeatable and respawn periodically rather than just one-offs. If you want help with text for some of these, let me know. I'm happy to help write some after I see yours to get an idea what kind and magnitude of requests you are talking about.

Anyway, yes, it'd be very natural for one of such requests to become a Nerva thing.

"On the other hand I would also reduce number of normal companions (only those who dont have their own unique backstories)"

Didn't you end up with all generic Roman companions having unique backstories already, though? Either way, if there isn't a mechanical reason you need to reduce them, I'd say let them be. Since there's an option to kill off governors and in late game you could end up with a huge empire to govern, it wouldn't be bad to have many characters that can potentially become new governors to fix some of the messes that can occur. e.g. I had a game where it seemed all but a few Roman governors generated with bad personalities and the empire was not fun to govern in the end because I had to spend a long time bribing all of them every week to keep things orderly. Having a lot of companions that become loyal subjects would let the player out of a situation like this if they don't want to be in it.

No problem.

"This would be great for immersion regardless of the Nerva content even! A proper ancient ruler's palace should have subjects looking for stuff or offering stuff for favor. Would be really cool if these people's requests can be repeatable and respawn periodically rather than just one-offs. If you want help with text for some of these, let me know. I'm happy to help write some after I see yours to get an idea what kind and magnitude of requests you are talking about."

I was thinking of something similar but havent done anything on this matter yet. (the last thing I did for the mod fas fixing the bandits go to lair code which was broken since I updated sea travelling)

The idea would be:

Supplicant (i.e. the guy who wants something from the player):

O Divinity, I have a small humble request. ....


Player: Granted! (maybe a very small honor boost)

Player: Denied! (not really any consequences)

So every of such events would be repetitive and you would have this layout:
The guy telling what he/she wants.
Player has two options: grant or deny.
Important is that this request should be something personal and not related to cities or places. Because matters of cities are dealt with when the player answeres petitions and by those random events.

"Anyway, yes, it'd be very natural for one of such requests to become a Nerva thing."
For Nerva (and similar guys) I thought he was just standing around and when player ask him he says something like:
Nerva: "O Divinity. I am your humble servant and if you ever have need for a loyal governor I would be honored to serve you."
Player: "Indeed, I am currently searching for capable people."
Player: "Your services are not needed, currently."

Something like that.

"Didn't you end up with all generic Roman companions having unique backstories already, though? Either way, if there isn't a mechanical reason you need to reduce them, I'd say let them be. Since there's an option to kill off governors and in late game you could end up with a huge empire to govern, it wouldn't be bad to have many characters that can potentially become new governors to fix some of the messes that can occur. e.g. I had a game where it seemed all but a few Roman governors generated with bad personalities and the empire was not fun to govern in the end because I had to spend a long time bribing all of them every week to keep things orderly. Having a lot of companions that become loyal subjects would let the player out of a situation like this if they don't want to be in it."
Well, just wanted to keep an eye on performance. But you are right: The impact isnt that huge of some guys like Nerva. I already tested that.

"O Divinity, I have a small humble request. ....

Player: Granted! (maybe a very small honor boost)
Player: Denied! (not really any consequences)

The guy telling what he/she wants.
Player has two options: grant or deny.
Important is that this request should be something personal and not related to cities or places. "

Kind of makes sense. The thing I was unclear about is what level of supplicants and therefore requests you had in mind. If it's people who are too high-level it might start looking like a city-related event that you said to avoid, but if it's too low-level then it could seem strange, as in "who let all these beggars direct access to the Emperor". :) Anyway, I took a stab at it (assuming it starts with the intro you posted and ends with the options you gave). If it's too low-level stuff, we can later dilute them with higher-level ones. After all, occasionally low-strata subjects could get to ask something of a ruler.


("emperor_request_text_1", "My second son is a good soldier and a very loyal citizen. It was always his dream to serve in your guard, but last month a sickness overtook him just in time for his test fight with the centurion and he was refused. He is well now, but the centurion will hear none of it. The post is too important, he says, to give anyone second chances. ^^I know my boy will make the best guard you've ever had, if you only give him a fair try.")

("emperor_request_text_2", "I know you must be very busy, so please forgive me for asking. I am writing a play for my artist troupe to take on our grand tour of all cities in your empire. It would mean so much to us if you read it and gave your opinion. We all greatly respect your taste in art.")

("emperor_request_text_3", "My family have been jewelers in Rome for generations. We have come into possession of a gemstone so clear and bright that it outshines anything we have seen before. Me and my best craftsmen worked diligently to make it into the most beautiful ring. I am here to present it to you, oh Divine, as a sign of our gratitude and loyalty. We ask for nothing but your favor in return.")

("emperor_request_text_4", "Sorry to bother you with this, but we've been laughed at by everyone else for asking. My family is from the country and I just moved here with my daughter for her to apprentice at the temple. We rented a cheap insula apartment to stay in. I know it's not the best, but it seemed OK. I didn't know that the building across the street was a brothel! Now, every night the street is filled with rowdy drunk men and the lustful screams are so loud that we can't sleep! Now the owner says we have to pay him for a year whether we live there or not. ^^Please, will you release us from this contract? My daughter is a chaste girl and a future priestess. I can't let her outside in a place like this.")

("emperor_request_text_5", "I am the leader of a dance troupe and it would be our pleasure to perform for you and your court. We ask for no pay, of course, only your attention.")

("emperor_request_text_6", "My love and I, we ran away from our families. They wouldn't let us see each other, but we are in love. You are the Divine, the embodiment of all that is good, you must understand what we feel. Would you take us under your protection as clients and let us marry? We are eager to serve you any way we can, only to be together.")

("emperor_request_text_7", "We were clients of a wealthy and respectable man. He was happy to take our modest presents all our lives and when my son came of age, our patron gave him employment on a fishing boat. My son paid his respects too when he was alive. But now the seas took our son and we are too old and frail to work. Our patron gives us too little to survive and we are desperate. Please, can you help? We've been loyal for generations and it's not right for us to starve now.")

("emperor_request_text_8", "I have come on behalf of my merchant guild to express our continued support and appreciation for you. We are honored to continue to do business in Rome. It is our privilege to present you with a modest chest filled with samples of our finest goods as a gift. Would you grant me a few moments of your time to peruse them?")

("emperor_request_text_9", "I have a gift as a blacksmith, even my teachers agree and they are the best in the Empire. I helped make some of the finest armor for centurions and even generals! Now my apprenticeship is over and I was supposed to start as a full journeyman craftsman, but the craftsman I was to replace decided not to retire. The guild rules restrict how many craftsmen there can be and now I can't become one. The guild elders are too attached to their traditions and rules to change them for me! ^^Please, help me become a blacksmith in the city. I don't want to go back to my village and spend my life making horseshoes!")

("emperor_request_text_10", "My family has long been in a feud with our rivals and it keeps escalating. Nobody has been killed so far, but we have now come close to it and I'm worried we might soon. They also think it's gone too far and we've been trying to agree on a way to mediate. Unfortunately, we cannot agree on a respectable person to preside over the mediation. ^^If the Emperor was to appoint an honest mediator, however, they would surely agree. Please find such a person for us.")