I think you nailed the femme fatale trope perfectly i hate her but i also love her, gameplay wise i loved the leeching mechanic its new, unique and fun and so is the enemy guard, she is good example of a guard ignoring hero as she have high damage and decent reach and i like how she synergies really well with Voivode which i doubt is a coincidence, finally she is a strong hero especially late game.

Having all that in mind i will be blunt a hero that can reach Leper level of damage and even surpass him have no business ignoring armor, she is a powerhouse especially late game and thats not even factoring the armor piercing portion and PROT is suppose to be a direct counter to these heroes with high damage yet here we have the succubus once she buff her damage she is pretty much unstoppable, point is she is already strong and the armor piercing only make her OP, other than that i am not sure about this but does her damage buff cap? i think it should at some point.

No. She dont need damage cap, because you cant up that more than 150% (its not too much because of her base dmg is pretty low). Plus you right - most fun time for succubus is late game and long red lvl dungeons (or courtyard) when you can have much fight and much soaking damage. But in fact: if you will camp one time you will lost all her buff, so you will waiting everytime for resting because you want more buff and more power! O_O And sometime it will make you lose. But if you will so cool and make 300% or more damage in one dungeon - enjoy! :3

About armor piersing - 1)Its magickal reaper's scythe and it ignore armor... like Death scythe or something... I mean its lore 2) its reasonable because of you cant anytime soak damage and sometime you need to play more safely. And if you play safe you will have no damage from succubus and have -1 hero in roster. With armor penetration she is still usable and can sometime kill some strong armored things like gargoyle or snail or octopus defender. Anyway its not OP, its ok! :3

He there Kaiju.
We made sure that her damage isn't unproportianl to the risk she brears.
Sure her second form is comparativly strong, but it does not come without a serious threat to your team.
The only real concern regarding her damage cap is Endless and we implemented dimminishing returns in endless mode. So if you decide to go Succubus-mode in endless you will see a cap in the damage increase at some point.

Another thing to keep in midn is that her main nuke "Scythe swing" has the same base Acc as leper and is only reliable with mark synergy. She is a high risk high reward type of character. Whn things go well anf you play accordingly she exells, but when things go bad you better bet not to have her transformed or in your party at all. This is the tradeoff for her potential power.

Thank you for your feedback we wil further investigae possible fringe scenarios were her damage can grow uncomparativly high.

Moved Here from Comments

Original Author: Jester Lachance

"Gotta say feels really underwhelming, like, to the point where I'd literally take any other hero. I only found her Human form useful against Madmen because they literally don't have any moves other than stress moves, and her true form didn't really do or tank enough damage to be worth the constant tickdown on my other heroes. Now classes that don't do damage are fine; I love the Lamia class because it's a dedicated support with really useful abilities, but Human Succubus is just so worthless. The idea of building up damage from several rounds of combat then changing form to execute it is all well and good, but I'd rather just have a class that DID damage on those several rounds of combat, it's just not worthwhile. Not a fan; looks great, sounds great, great idea, but poor execution on the abilities."

Answer:
Thanks for your feedback,
Sadly we cannot work much with this. If you would take the time for a more comparative and profound anlysis i would help us understand more what are you aiming for here.
The class was tested by many people over several weeks and her potential if played right
is definitivly there.
Compared to vanilla mark skills the skill has quite much value. It serves a -DODGE mark aswell as a "tactical stun". If you explore it more you will quickly see that there are many more enemy wich can be outplayed with the stress blocck.
Example: forcing a ghoul or a witch to use a non stress skill instead of a nuke, it is way more worth than taking a bit of hp damage in that case, since stressheals are more "valuable" than HP heals.

Her unramped damage is below average because her ramped damage is outstandingly high. For sure it requires the right use of her leeching mechanics. Definitly a class wich needs to be learned for maximum potential, but rewaring once understood. Definitly no class for people who dont like a tactical approach to combat.

I assume you have probably not brought her out of the early / early mid game, since mrks/stuns and guards get more valuable the more the game progresses. In earlyy levels its just a damage race, agreed..

Give yourself a chance to learn her take her into mid late game and you will definitivly feel the power once mastered. Once you have more expirience ith her we would liek to hear a mroe detailed feedback.

Greetings

You dont balance high DMG potential by lowering other stats, you nerf DMG and the thing is she can solve her weakness on her own, is her fragility really a weakness when she have two guarding abilities, stealth, a dodge buff with great utility and healing in beast form ? and accuracy isnt a major weakness its easy to solve not to mention she can mark for her self.

Experienced players can easily utilize her power while negating her weakness and its up to them not to exploit her leeching mechanic, you dont need to camp and you can spawn fights to buff her damage if you were patient to do so, if that wasnt an exploit i dont know what it is.

On top of her high DMG she also ignore armor as if she needs it, so really in term of DMG what is stopping her? just work around her easily negateable weakness and boom infinite DMG.

Her damage need to cap and with her high DMG potential she doesnt need armor piercing.

kaiju9432 Its not need. Just try to make super-high damage with her in red lvl dungeons, try to kill hardest boss with her and you will know, that she not OP. Most times you will be dead if you will ignore camp before boss-fight and no matter how many damage she have. she never make 199 dmg like jester, never make 100 like bounty hunter or arbalest. Her damage is 8-11 and how many boost dmg you need for make super hight damage? with +200% it will 24-33. Looks like base bh or arba damage vs marked. But they can deal this everytime, but she will deal it only last 2-3 fights. About armor penetration - when you play with markers party you will cut enemy armor anyway. She is strong hero, but not OP.
Try to use her like OP in hard dungeons and you will know why.
About experienced players: they already test her becasue we make this mod half of year and all this time we test her in all situations.

I do find her camping skills to be below par, i'd like to have a conversation with the coder on this team, feel free to add me and send me a DM.

As with voivode - this is really great mod, but weak hero. But! She is really weak only in early game, later she is "kinda weak but not so much". And this is ok, her gameplay is not frustrated and limited as voivode, and it still will be one of the best mod classes if you left her unchanged. But (imho) she still need a few improvements, this is what i love to see:
1. Stats - im kinda ok with her hp, but why she have to be so slow, epecially early one? All same "fragile and agile" type of heroes, and even some more robust one have 7-9, or even 8-10 speed. She have 4-8. Why she so slow on lvl 0? Why not make her grave robber lvl with 8-10? It will not make her overpowered. And if you fear what she can lasthit her teammate - this can happen anyway, especially later one. Sacrifises we made =3 Jokes aside - she still can pass or move to prevent this, right? Crit ratio too can have a little buff, but this is just my preference.
2. Transform - why you use "pull" instead of "move"? She bark like enemy pull her, this pretty weird.
3. Silent Curse - ok skill, but dodge buff\debuff really weak. Can you buff this a little? After all - many dodge characters can have a much better buffs. Someting like 8-10 early one, 15-16 later.
4. Demonic Leeching - good on lvl 5, garbage on lvl 0. Why so extreme ramp up? from 1% to 5%? Most skill have less extreme progression. Maybe 3-3-4-4-5-5? Cuz later every percent more important - you have better base damage and bunus damage from trinkets, quirks, etc. And can it have better ACC? For 2-times-only skill it miss to often.
5. My Hero! - Great skill, really. Nothing to add.
6. Scythe Swing - 75-95 base ACC? Really? Sick dying man, who fall apart have more precision then agile demon? Especially early one - even mark bonus put her at mediocre lvl, and very often she need to attack target without mark. Give her a little love (lol) - +10 ACC. Pretty please - she really need it. Later with big bonus it will not be overpowered - her bonuses vs marked not super great, after all.
7. Harves Reaper. - Meh. I mean all her skills pretty fancy and this is not, and it not straightforwardly strong damage skill. I mean look at highway and hound - first attack same targets, deal far more damage (unless you stuck crazy amout of damage bonuses, but this is rarely happen) and add cool and rare debuff. And still people rarely use it. Second deal same damage, and same bleed, but attack 1 more target. Yeah, armor pierce make it even with hound (but not with highway or shieldbraker). Well, this skill not useless but kinda "meh". Maybe you can add some flavor to it? For exmple - some effect on marked target will be nice - extra bleed or damage, debuff, etc..
8. Protect Your Goddess! - Pretty cool spell. But maybe it can have extra ACC - this is important skill with limited use, it really sad than it miss.

Camping:

1. Sower of Discord - good skill, but is intended that it can proc both minus and plus stress on the same person?
2. Human warmth, Jealosy, Innocent Prayers - all pretty good skills, nothing to say.
3. Beautiful Parasite - this one is pretty bad. First - succubus have on of lowest base damage in game. Second - as far as i remember, damage formula is (base damage)x(1+skill modifier)x(1+buffs+debuffs). So it will not bust her damage 1.45x, this is just ~one battle bonuses - 2 leechings + 1 round of transform = 43% untill camp, instead of 45% for 4 battles. Why you need to sacrifise over hero damage for this mediocre at best bonus? In Champion lvl you attack even with supports pretty often - dead monsters cant hurt you, cant stress and debuff, or can give you some nasty disease. In champion lvl even vestal and jester need to use offensive abilities really often. And succubus need to stay in human form at least half of the time, so maybe she will attack as often as vestal.
I use this alot and its never pays off, unless i run with something like Marvin Ceo Lamia, who never ever attack. Maybe lower debuff to 45%?
4. Just one kiss - if you can deal with stress after camp this one just overpowered. Maybe less stress heal but less horror? And i dunno why religious characters will not like kissing her =3 Really, she use her charms on them all the time, and they seems to work well, and they scared to kiss her after this. Strange.

P.S. Sorry for bad english, hope you will release beasmaster soon!

Lately I've had some time to play darkest dungeon again and I was finally able to try this class, and so far I like her but there's a certain skill that bug me a little, I'm talking of Silent curse, a pretty cool skill but I'd like to ask you this:
What differentiate a stunned character from a character who have every skill disabled?
The first will receive a stun resist. bonus when the stun wears off, the second no, with this premise I'd like to talk of this skill, I like it but as for me the ability to completely disable certain enemies is a bit overpowered, if used on a mosquito (pre-thirst) he will just pass the turn, same for a madman, a Thrall and I guess the Squiffy ghast and gatekeeper (not yet encountered/tested), being able to negate some skills to the enemies is cool but most of them (especially those from the courtyard) will pass from being a threat to being a mere placeholder, and nothing can stop you from doing so, this is why I asked that question before, for some enemies this is not different from being stunned, in both case they can't act and are forced to skip their turn, stun it's a powerful mechanic afterall and we know it, this is why they get a stun resist. bonus, to avoid being permanent locked but this doesn't work with a debuff, and there's more, this skill can be easily combined with demonic leeching, you can block and mark someone with silent curse and the next turn you can use demonic leeching to keep the target blocked while blocking someone else, too (obviously with the help of another character), and repeat if necessary since silent curse have no limitations and demonic leeching can be used up to two times, meaning that you can block someone for five consecutive rounds while blocking other targets in the meantime, and this is no little feat considering that in the meantime she's draining dodge and damage. This skill have a huge potential and as for me this is her strongest skill, therefore I suggest to change it a bit, instead of a "Disable stress skills" I suggest a "-X% stress damage" debuff if possible, this way silent curse can still be used to mark and make the target easier to hit while still being useful for the stress management but without deprive the target of some (if not all) of his most imortant skills, like "the thirst" for the courtyard monsters, which make them unable to transform for example. This change would make her more valuable against direct stress damage (especially if AoE) and less against horror, which would differentiate her from other stress dealer classes, example, the Jester can increase the stress resistance and is particularly strong against direct stress damage if they are focused on a single target, the Hound master can heal the whole party but is unreliable, Marvinseo's Seraph can deal with horror but not with direct stress while the Lamia can manage direct stress on up to two target simultaneously but is unreliable against horror and so on... other than that I like the succubus and will use her more to see how she behave, that said, sorry for the wall text and have a nice day.

Автор сообщения: Laplace93

What differentiate a stunned character from a character who have every skill disabled?

Well i mostly agree, stun disable all skills, curse disable only stress one. But you cant stun 5 times in the row. And while 1 use of stun better then 1 use of curse, curse have no limitation, and even most monsters have less debuff resistance.
But in over hand - this curse is incredibly beautiful idea. It will be a tragedy if autors will need to nerf it to much.
Also in the game you rarely need 5 curses - "stress only" monsters in general weak and fragile but fast, and they can act before succubus. So here same strategy as with stun - disable and focus. Monsters with mix between stress and damage skills still have have some over strong skill what they can use instead.
Main problem here, at least for me is hybrid skills, what deal damage and stress in the same time. For example "big bandit" (forgot his name) cant use any skill under curse cuz all his attack deal some amount of stress damage. And he so slow what succubus can keep him silenced forever.

I hope we wrong and curse is alright, but if its too strong i think is "-100% stress damage deal" with "-100% horror amount" (if this even possible) will be allright, imho.

Автор сообщения: Chikanuk

Main problem here, at least for me is hybrid skills, what deal damage and stress in the same time. For example "big bandit" (forgot his name) cant use any skill under curse cuz all his attack deal some amount of stress damage. And he so slow what succubus can keep him silenced forever.

Yep, this is one of the problems I see, most courtyard monsters (and not just them) have stress on very important skills, like the above mentioned the thirst, necessary for them to switch form, a -X% stress damage still let these monsters heal them self and change playstyle but with no stress damage, with disable stress skills most of them lose almost half of their skillset and aren't a threat anymore.

Автор сообщения: Chikanuk

Also in the game you rarely need 5 curses - "stress only" monsters in general weak and fragile but fast, and they can act before succubus. So here same strategy as with stun - disable and focus.

Silent curse 5 (or more) times in a row is obviously unnecessary in a real fight, but still this show how easy to abuse is this skill, you are right when you say that stress only monsters are usualy fragile and weak but think at this, if you can keep an enemy this weak permanently blocked why should you focus your damage on it? Such enemy in this condition pose no harm at all so wouldn't be better to focus your damage on something more threatening? Whit a stun you know that you have to kill it fast because stun will inevitably fail you at some point, but this is not the case with Silent curse, as long as you have enough speed/accuracy/debuff chance you are ok and since a battle is better if last few rounds you don't need that much luck. I like this skill but in it's current state is way too effective in my opinion.

I've got a pretty long list of suggestions for balance and improvement, so here goes.

Grindstone should increase bleed by 50% instead of 35%. It makes the math a bit cleaner, and doesn't really break anything. It would also be better at 2/2 than 1/3. 1/3 means that if she's buffed up and rolls high, you have an armor piercing guard ignoring nuclear warhead. 2/2 retains the power, but pulls in her potential for 100 damage crits (I've seen it get close)

Actions when transformed should stress heal self and allies. It doesn't have to be good at doing so, but she loses her ability to stress heal after the initial transformation and can't critspam to do so. Even just 1 point/turn would make her more of a stress healer character.

Protect should set the marks for 2 turns. While this is a double edged sword, her guard can go multiple turns. It adds a bit more risk to a skill that desperately needs it, while also granting more reward.

I feel Silent Curse needs a 1 turn cooldown, and a bit more power rolled into it as a result. It's insane and incredible if the enemy can only use stress skills, occasionally rolling into outright gamebreaking due to its sheer effectiveness at shutting down some high threat stress targets. Giving it a 1 turn cooldown cuts its power down notably, but this serves a bit of a problem when you're using it for the mark. Rolling in say "Steal Prot" as well would serve to balance this out, making it an excellent way to designate a priority target for the party to kill instead of just superlockdown.

Scythe Swing should have its accuracy bonus vs mark removed, and rolled into her baseline accuracy. The accuracy on this is just too low for its role.

Demonic Leeching should be changed to 2/2/3/3/4. At 5 at max rank, it is crazy, while at 1 at minimum rank, it is pathetic. I would also give it a secondary debuff (not a steal) such as reducing accuracy or speed, to give it better turn economy. It doesn't need to be a good debuff, but its damage reduction is so marginal that it only serves to ramp her. Giving it a speed or accuracy reduction fits the flavor, while making it more efficient and offsetting the loss of power at ranks 4 and 5.

I would increase her base dodge slightly as well. an extra +3 (not scaling) would not break the game and help her frontline better.

Likewise, I'd reduce her base crit slightly. While the potential to crit her way into stress heals is nice, Scythe Swing critting with stacks is simply oppressive at times, and could easily have a chance reduction.

Alternatively, dumpstat her demon form accuracy outright, but give her accuracy steal as well.

We did a balance patch today tackling her struggle in the early game.
Aswell we have majorly improved english localization.

Thanks for all the feedback you submitted so far

Hey, just wanted to say thanks for this mod. It's a good one! :) But in regards to the latest balance patch, i think it's quite good but i'm kinda bummed that her transformation doesn't refresh anymore. Makes her much worse for endless since you'll need to use tons of shard dust now to do the same. I understand that she's quite strong but with alot of ramp up still but.. yeah. Any chance of reverting that one?