Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

Drowner Class Mod BETA
Odd Jan 22, 2019 @ 4:26pm
Balancing Suggestions
Incoming info dump:

First up, this is a fanastic mod! I love the artwork and the theme that you have going here! The ideas and creativity are simply astounding, and I really enjoyed test-driving the drowner.

Second are some basic bugs (which I'm sure you've already heard about/corrected):
1. Exodia shares effect names with Slayer class mod (Sabot 1A and 1B, etc...).
2. Contagion needs to have an .apply_once true to all of its effects in order to function properly (otherwise you get crazy things like the Drowner bled and blighted for 6 pts/2 when she's actually got a cure on the skill)
3. Some skill names are capitalized and others aren't. Additionally, the Wreath camping skill comes up as SWreath for whatever reason.

Third and really the main reason as to why I'm commenting are some suggestions. These are completely subjective and can be taken or left as you desire. They are ideas that I think are interesting or expand upon her current skills, hopefully without becoming too overpowered or straying from her theme. These are sort of ordered in how important I think the change is but not really.

1. Contagion. This is a really cool concept that (when fixed as seen above) ends up as a net 2 heal to the party at level 1 and a net -4 heal to the party at max level. It kinda functions as this panic button, which is really interesting. The trouble is, it's hard to argue for using it. A 20 hp heal is probably going to overheal at least 1 player (more likely 2) at max level, whereas the bleed/blight's going to end them in an even worse position. Sure there are cures, but it basically locks you into a single team comp. It would honestly be better to leave it unleveled and just take the small but not insignificant panic button of 6 at level 1.

Suggestion: The name contagion makes me think of a virus or plague. Going with the same principle of being a wide-spread heal, what if we turn the direct heal into a heal over time? We can have the drowner "infecting" the rest of the party with a slightly beneficial disease... but one with consequences in the form of some sort of debuff. We could leave a very small 1 pt direct heal to rescue people from death's door and keep the panic button idea alive. Obviously if you've got a party-wide regeneration with a small direct heal, you need an equal trade-off since the drowner is not meant to be the main healer. A 50% damage debuff (or a similar strong accuracy debuff) for the same amount of time as the heal over time keeps the theme of an infection alive (no pun intended).

tl;dr version: .heal 1 .dotHpHeal 2 .duration 2 .damage_low/high_multiplier -0.5

2. Positioning and skill choice. I've tried my best, and there isn't really a combination of skills that makes me think, "Oh! So that's one way of playing this character!" Some of the moves are only available from the back, some from the front, but there's no way to move backwards once the drowner's moved up. Not only that, the big back move (Bombard) requires marking for additional damage; with the drowner's high speed, she's often going to be the one marking, which isn't generally worth it since she could be upfront just biting/hammering the enemy anyway.

Suggestions: Decide what kind of character you want to make. An active shuffling character, a character that can be happily shuffled, or a dedicated front-line fighter. In my opinion, the drowner is a front-liner. She has similar health to the seraph and somewhere between the damage of the leper and seraph. Defense-wise, she could probably stand to lose some (as could her speed), but otherwise her stat-line seems much more like a front liner than a back-liner/shuffler. As such, I would recommend moving all of her skills (or most of them) to the front. There could still be some slight shuffling (give bombard a move 2 0 and have it combo nicely into an assault for example), but I feel that moving most of her skills to the front two positions makes thematic and strategic sense.

3. Bombard vs. Purify. I absolutely love the artwork for both of these, but unfortunately, they play almost the exact same role. Both hit far more ranks than is normal for the non-insignificant damage they do. Bombard has a synergy with marking and purify has a build-up, but otherwise, they'll generally be used in very similar situations. Especially since the trade-off health damage (besides the stacking debuff) is the same. Honestly, as they are, I tend to use bombard more than purify. Purifies massive 4 battle debuff and additional 30% reduction in damage in combat while only hitting 3 rows make me shy away from even slotting it in my arsenal. Now, obviously, there are massive buffs to purify as battles continue, but then purify becomes almost too strong. 66% chance of huge damage is okay when it wipes out three out of 4 enemies at the beginning of every combat.

Suggestions: Honestly, I'm still wrestling with this one. Nerf purify's build up while decreasing the duration of the damage stacking is one option, but that leaves Bombard in an awkward position. Purify becomes far, far better than bombard even against marked targets, so bombard ultimately needs to change its role. With a slightly nerfed purify build up, bombard could see a role in being a single target, marked-only penetrating nuke (cause lasers are... sorta... penetrating). Nerf the accuracy into oblivion, buff the accuracy vs. marked bonus, and have it only target 1 enemy, and we have an actual reason to take bombard vs. purify: high protection targets. (Plus, it gives Exodia's mark a clearer reason for existing). But wait, you say! High protection targets are what hammer does!

4. Ah yes, hammer. It's strong. It's real strong. Ignoring protection with only a self-inflicted bleed and a minor accuracy debuff with good damage and multi-target hitting? That's some nice stuff right there. Hew has a -40% damage modifier and the leper's basically a blind man with how frequently he misses the least agile of targets. I don't think hammer should be left as is. I do like the interplay of accuracy being debuffed from the steam coming from the gauntlet. That's a really neat idea. But that and the bleed (which is moderately easy to resist) are not enough of a negative for the hammer to be balanced.

Suggestions: I'm not entirely sure, but here's my thoughts. If we allow Bombard to sort of take the place of heavy-duty protection penetration, then Hammer's role opens up to some sort of debuffer or backline attack. Personally, I like the idea of a backline attack, but let's talk about both possibilities. A debuffer could be a sort of immobilizing move (like the drowner is nailing down an enemy and preventing them from moving) or a severe slow/dodge debuff (though with exodia's stun and marking abilities, why would you want just a slow?). The trouble with these ideas is that immobilization isn't often useful (I don't know of any modded heroes that extensively use immobilization at least), and why do a slow/dodge debuff when Exodia not only marks and pushes but also stuns (though, of course, Exodia also deserves some adjustment; more on that later). The idea for Hammer that I prefer is making it a ranged attack (the animation sort of looks like she's launching a harpoon) that targets the backline. Now, a front-row individual targeting the backline needs some limitations. The first slot only is a good step a la the Hellion's Iron Swan, but I feel that the drowner should logically be able to target either of the backrow places. That flexibility combined with Drowner's superior damage compared to the Hellion necessitates a cost for the ability. Going along with the idea of steam coming off of the Hammer animation, I think a relatively high possibility of a scaling HP loss (small, but still enough to make you think twice about the ability) for the rest of the party seems fair. Back lines are often stress dealers and the Drowner has a decent shot to outright slay them with just a -15% -> 0% damage modifier. So, using Hammer becomes: "Do I allow the stress healer to stress out my team or do I take the HP loss and try to take out the stress dealer immediately?" While this may seem severe, I feel it's a relatively appropriate penalty for the Drowner being able to semi-reliably take out a backline stress dealer; after all, the Drowner is a front-row damage dealer (in my head at least), and a penalty should be paid for abilities that go outside that role (also part of the reason why Contagion should have such a severe debuff to it). We of course could also do the accuracy debuff, but I honestly feel like lost accuracy (and resultant misses) is much more frustrating than just a loss of health (it's why I often rage against Lepers that don't have good trinkets).

5. Exodia. Stun, push, damage, and mark is a tad too much for one ability. Consider the Crusader's Pommel Strike. Around the same damage (iirc), and just the stun. Most mark abilities do no damage (though most debuff, which is inbetween a push and a stun), but certainly very few abilities mark, stun, push, AND do a decent amount of damage.

Suggestions: That being said, the Pariah has a stun+mark+stress heal, so Exodia's not that far off from being in line with other modded classes. Nerfing damage to zero might actually be enough. For the sake of discussion, however, the artwork for Exodia is partially the same as Purify. There is an option that Exodia could buff Purify significantly for a few rounds while also marking a target. Alternatively, Exodia could buff Bombard for 1 round for a bit of a combo. Personally, I like the idea of Exodia being a mark and guard clear. Basically, Exodia will bypass and prevent guarding of a target that you can then take out them out with a well-placed (changed) Bombard. Alternatively, Exodia could prevent all guarding and have only a chance to tag (like Shrapnel's Flush/Overclocked) but applies that chance to the entire enemy team. That would make things much more interesting mechanically where the most reliable way of using Bombard would be bringing along a spotter for the Drowner.

These are my current thoughts on the class. Again, I love the artwork and all of the beautiful possibilities you've introduced with the animations, and I really hope to see what the completed product is going to be!

To all the subscribers browsing the forums, please let me know what you think!