RimWorld

RimWorld

SF Grim Reality
Ridesdragons Aug 19, 2019 @ 2:41am
The Grim Reality About the State of Marriages and Friendships with This Mod
so I found out why there have been numerous reports that this mod prevents marriages from happening (myself included). something I noticed is that no one really cares about anyone else unless they were family or already married. pretty much everyone was only an acquaintance. romance attempts rarely work unless you're friends, and the higher your opinion, the better. for example, the first successful romance attempt in my current colony, a year and a half in, was when someone beautiful moved in, and made a pass on another beautiful colonist. they were both instantly friends with each other because they were both beautiful. also, I had 3 games previously with no successful romance attempt in about 12 years game time combined.

at first I thought it was that no one actually interacted with each other, but that's not true, people are interacting. but then I noticed that, despite talking a lot, they aren't gaining any points for doing so. the primary way of making friends in the game has been neutered.

in vanilla, chitchatting increases your opinion by .66, up to a max of +10. it would take 16 chitchat attempts without dissipating for that to be reached. with this mod, chitchatting is changed to 1, resulting in only needing 10 chitchat attempts to reach the max gain of +10. cool. but, of course, chitchatting won't make friends. deep talks, however, do. in vanilla, deep talks give +15 points each, but only stacks 10 times on the same pawn, and has a .9x stack multiplier. that said, that's still +135 for 10 stacks. with this mod, deep talks only give +3. it has a .95x stack multiplier, but the value's so low that it really doesn't matter. deep talks are rare compared to chitchats, but in order for someone to befriend someone else, you'd need 10 chitchats and at least 4 deep talks in a short amount of time before any other modifiers. if they have a difference in work or drug ethics, or happen to make an offensive remark, or god forbid they're ugly, this is made far, far worse. at max value (10 chitchats and 10 deep talk stacks), this only reaches a value of +40, which barely qualifies people to actually pass romance attempts. considering it's not uncommon for people to value people they talk with all the time way higher than their own family, I can't say that's even a realistic value, in case realism was the reason for setting this so low.

you may not change how pawns interact with each other, but by influencing how pawns feel after interacting with each other, you indirectly neuter friendships, not to mention marriages.
Last edited by Ridesdragons; Aug 19, 2019 @ 3:05am
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Ridesdragons Aug 19, 2019 @ 3:09am 
also, disclaimer, because everyone on the internet thinks everyone else is being hostile (and the way I speak generally doesn't help when it comes to full-length reports), this is purely a detailed report on an issue, what's causing the issue, why it's causing the issue, and how to resolve it. other remarks are responses to your previous comment stating that your mod isn't causing the issue because you don't change how pawns interact with each other. other than this one problem, the rest of the mod's great. I'm personally just gonna cut out the segment in the code where you nerf deep talk from 15 to 3, and leave the rest unaltered. it beats not using this mod and then having to deal with the various issues you listed in the description that this mod definitely fixes.
StarlightSovereign  [developer] Aug 23, 2019 @ 8:28pm 
Ridesdragons: Thank you for your investigation and thorough explanation of the issue!
I totally see what you mean.
I also understand why I previously thought I hadn't adjusted this and now see that I did.
In short, I didn't understand how deep talks affected relationships as I'd taken it the wrong way and thought the value was doing something else. TL;DR I derped.
I didn't think I'd altered what you were saying, but you're totally right. I did.

I'm currently loading the game to push an update to return Deep Talks to the vanilla value for now. I don't know how I'd better balance it and would have to play with it to consider it. Not having had this issue myself, I realized it's because, as you said, the ones in my colonies who married are beautiful. I didn't realize the connection.

I sincerely appreciate your attention to this issue and bringing it to me as you did. I'm sorry for dismissing it due to my own ignorance. :)

Also, I deeply appreciate your disclaimer. Annoying as it is to have to say something like that, it really does help someone like me who has a specific type of anxiety (that I won't get into here) that makes me feel very easily that I'm hated. It is very nice to see reassurance that it's not meant as such, though nicely, in this case, I never felt that way at all. You only came off as politely explaining the problem. Thank you for your patience with me. :)

The mod will be updated shortly. Takes about 20 min for my game to load (don't ask how many mods I run.) Then I'll be pushing it live. :) Thanks again!
Ridesdragons Aug 23, 2019 @ 8:47pm 
oh don't worry, I understand the 20 minute load time https://puu.sh/E8Qey/e3dba9e091.png

I also edit a lot of mods and make fixes mid-game. and even edit the save mid-game to take care of pyromaniacs (really wish there was a way to just prevent the trait from popping up at all) 3/4 of my playtime's spent loading lol
makute Sep 19, 2019 @ 5:20am 
Hi Ridesdragons,

Did you use other mood altering mods along with "Grim Reality"?

Could "Psychology" or Rainbeau's "Rational Romance" ease the issues your describing?
Ridesdragons Sep 19, 2019 @ 10:30pm 
this is a very delayed response to an issue that's since been resolved by the mod developer. also, if you read what I wrote, the problem was caused specifically by this mod's code. other mods are irrelevant at that point.

@sheifoxy think you could close this discussion thread since it's already been resolved?
makute Sep 20, 2019 @ 10:29am 
Awesome! I asumed it wasn't since the last response from @sheifoxy was "The mod will be updated shortly." and nothing else.

Back to the game then :)
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