Originally posted by alexnielsen93:

I've beaten the game with Empire on Hard and Rebels on Expert, but holy hell the black sun is hard.

I don't even see their strengths when playing against them. The only time I ever lose battles to the Black Sun is when they have OVERWHELMING numbers, and only after losing a huge portion of their fleet.

If I play as Black Sun, I don't have the economy to throw away half of my fleet every time. So what do you guys do to play as them? What's your macro strategy, and what's your basic fleet makeup?

rule 1 of black sun: corruption corruption corruption

rule 2 of black sun: spam, your stuff isn't as good as the other factions tech, however you have all your tech available from the start and it's usually cheaper

One of my suggestions for a better economy would be to take Bespin, Ord ibana and Zhar, this should be your first goal as your main cluster of planets are right next to these planets.
I haven't played the new update but I know that venators are a good ship to aim towards mass producing at their well rounded price while mercanaries that drain your weekly income are not worth it. Corruption is key to making money so make sure to use the it on high income planets at the end of the week all at once to ensure they stay corrupted long enough to get your pay

As for ground buildings that help with income, black sun palaces give the most but are expensive as hell, 5000 credits yikes. black markets give about 50 if I remember and cantinas are a safe bet for money and planet protection.

Almost forgot to mention SPACE CANTINAS ARE KEY, The wheel can get two and will buff the economy as well as defend.

Hope all this helps somehow!

I've beat the campaign as both Rebels and Empire on the hardest difficulty. Black Sun on the easiest is very difficult. My strategy so far that has been working is to literally abandon most of my territory. Sell buildings, move troops and fleets (abusing battle retreat mechanic sometimes), and consolidate.

I've tried keeping just the Mandalore and Tatooine regions while dumping Bakura, Fondor, and Ord Mantell. I made substantial progress but still quit when the Empire jumped five(!) star destroyers onto what I thought was a humongous fleet I had gathered. Turns out the Rebels and Imperials had been fighting with the gloves on until that point.

I want to beat the campaign as the Black Sun, but another game as Rebels or Empire has a lot more appeal at this point. Black Sun ships are just a joke (only good stuff I've found is Mandalorian but you have to pay way more than the Rebels or Empire do for a SD-equivalent), your territory is *everywhere*, and it's just a frustration.

Originally posted by gardel58:

One of my suggestions for a better economy would be to take Bespin, Ord ibana and Zhar, this should be your first goal as your main cluster of planets are right next to these planets.
I haven't played the new update but I know that venators are a good ship to aim towards mass producing at their well rounded price while mercanaries that drain your weekly income are not worth it. Corruption is key to making money so make sure to use the it on high income planets at the end of the week all at once to ensure they stay corrupted long enough to get your pay

As for ground buildings that help with income, black sun palaces give the most but are expensive as hell, 5000 credits yikes. black markets give about 50 if I remember and cantinas are a safe bet for money and planet protection.

Almost forgot to mention SPACE CANTINAS ARE KEY, The wheel can get two and will buff the economy as well as defend.

Hope all this helps somehow!

Actually about the Venator being the best ship to spa out as Black Sun as much as it pains me to say this it's not nearly as good as you think cause the Black Sun version is the worst version of the Venator as while sure it has Quad turbolasers instead of the Duel Heavies but when compared to the Liberation and the all mighty Imperial Venator you have only one shield hardpoint which means your Venators shields are going to be dropped most of the time and that's not even the worst part as the fighters you launcher are a joke when compared to what the Imperial Venator and the Liberation as they launch ARC-170's and a lot of V-wings where as your launch a diverse cast of low tier fighters and NO bombers (However with the new update there might have been a chance they rebuff the Black Sun Venator and made it so it launches ARC-170's but last time I played they didn't have any.) Really though the only real good thing about the Black Sun Venator is the fact you can actually build it manually where as the Rebels get the Liberation and that's it for them and the Empire can only get them through missions and that's if your RNG is good.

To be fair though as Black Sun you could potentually play like the Rebels in doing things like commando raids with your heroes and hit and run tactics like killing key units like hero's,the Empires starting Venators as it will force them to go with the much more frail Ton Falk,going for worlds which are not only high income but also give you a HUGE bonus in credits when you take them like Argue(Sorry for spelling), and Kessel. This also means abandoning planets which you don't fell confident that you can defense as in AOTR the advantage usually will go to the attacker no matter the situation so that means if you don't go for the Rebels around Kashyyyk it might just be better to abandon Trandosia,another example would be your forces into the core around Fondor and Thyrferra which Thyferra has good income but unless you planet on literally death stacking your entire force you have around the galaxy and going balls deep in the core with the Empire has a decent force there it might just be better to abandon planets like Fondor,Atzerri and Thyrferra and instead focus on the area around Bespin and Hoth.

Also planets that will give you discount on certain units like Acclamators and AT-AP's on Rothana,Kamino for the cheaper infantry,Bothawai not much for for discounts but more so for the massive intel buff it gives you on the neiboring systems (Though be warned that Bothawai is potentually the hardest to rat out the Rebels from if you let them build up and you will still have to defend the planet once you take it) makes the South East part of the map very important to go for early if your stradegy revolves around moving your production base to Kamino,Bothawai and Rothana.

However this doesn't mean you should ignore the South West as you can get decent indiviual fighters from Naboo and unlock some interesting units like Flash speeders which are good against infantry and are fast and of course the 4 main income targets Bespin which is suprisingly easy to first take but be prepared to defend it from the Rebels,Zhar which also starts out neutral and you could actually grab it before the Empire does if your super agressive and blitz Naboo before the Empire moves all of there forces around Eradiu to Naboo,Malastare which you'll have to invade the ground and space making it a bit harder to take then the first two but honestly if your going for Naboo early on it might be a good idea to also take Malastare since it has high income and while your at it you might as well remove the Imperial presence around Eradiu, lastly we have Ord Ibanna which sometimes you can catch off guard but in general it's one of the harder Tibanna planets to defend as you'll have to defend it against both the Empire and the Rebellion until you lock down the entire South West which will take time and resources in which the longer you wait to attack the enemy the stronger they will become and the more they'll dig in.

I will say it does seem like Mandalore and Salucami might also be major planets you would want to fortify as the last thing you want the Rebels to be able to do is to take there forces from both Munnulist and Mon Cala and merge them with the Rebel One Fleet around Kashyyyk. Also keep in mind Agamar gives you a discount in fighter production which could be scary to see what the Rebels would do with the planet and Ord Mantel will give you salvage on the Ground which you'll already get if your defending or have corrupted the planet your attacking but it can be nice if you can't afford to corrupt a world your attacking and I don't think you'd want the Empire in particual to merge there core world holdings and Yaga Minor as they'll have at least 3 or 4 potentual capital shipyards on Yaga Minor,Bilbringi,Rendili and Kuat though to be fair Yaga Minor can also be a nice buffer state between you and the Rebels so the choice is yours whether or not you want to go for Munnulist or not in which is not a bad idea since it's high income and will link of Kalee meaning you don't got to abandon Kalee if you do so.

Interestingly like how the Rebels can merge the Rebel One Fleet and the Liberation Fleet by moving one of the two by taking Toydaria and one of the intersections near Hutt space you can do the same with your Ord Mantell fleet,Salucami Fleet and Mandalore fleet by sending one of the three through Ithor which you can temporarly take to get a small credit bonus.

So, I'm done playing as Black Sun. Specifically I'm done because, for the fifth time the Rebels have knocked out The Wheel and it's reinforced defenses and fleet with their own massive fleet (Liberator, Rebel One, Juno Eclipse, some Nebulon Bs and five Dreadnoughts), and even after a long battle and knocking out all their fighters, we still only took out Juno and two Nebulon Bs.

Tyber Zann and Urai Fenn are so outclassed as to be worthless, all your fighters are garbage, your starting position is awful because all the bad guy planets are just thrown into the Black Sun umbrella, and there's enough in each area that you need to try to defend it (Ord Mantel is the only place you can get buy Capital Ships at the start, Fondor is the only place you can get Skiprays, Mandalore has infrastructure for building new things, and Tatooine/Geonosis/Hypori are money makers) but you can't actually use them to support each other due to the size of the Galaxy and enemy factions preventing it.

Originally posted by crazyivan067:

So, I'm done playing as Black Sun. Specifically I'm done because, for the fifth time the Rebels have knocked out The Wheel and it's reinforced defenses and fleet with their own massive fleet (Liberator, Rebel One, Juno Eclipse, some Nebulon Bs and five Dreadnoughts), and even after a long battle and knocking out all their fighters, we still only took out Juno and two Nebulon Bs.

Tyber Zann and Urai Fenn are so outclassed as to be worthless, all your fighters are garbage, your starting position is awful because all the bad guy planets are just thrown into the Black Sun umbrella, and there's enough in each area that you need to try to defend it (Ord Mantel is the only place you can get buy Capital Ships at the start, Fondor is the only place you can get Skiprays, Mandalore has infrastructure for building new things, and Tatooine/Geonosis/Hypori are money makers) but you can't actually use them to support each other due to the size of the Galaxy and enemy factions preventing it.

well considering tyber and urai are in longe range vessels not meant to be alone they would be outclassed by close range combat with dreadnoughts or rebel one, your cheap fighters are meant to be used in numbers excluding the starviper, your ships are cheaper than the other factions so you can get a numbers advantage pretty fast if you jut buy acclamators and munificents

[/quote] well considering tyber and urai are in longe range vessels not meant to be alone they would be outclassed by close range combat with dreadnoughts or rebel one, your cheap fighters are meant to be used in numbers excluding the starviper, your ships are cheaper than the other factions so you can get a numbers advantage pretty fast if you jut buy acclamators and munificents [/quote]

I did swarm them fighters, I managed to knock out all their fighter escorts, but after that the fighters can't actually do anything other than fly around and get shot down. I did use Munificents and some frigate/corvettes, and they did their job, but not well enough to shield Urai and Tyber, who got knocking out Juno's Nebulon and the other Nebulons.

I'd have brought more ships to the fight, but the only place I can build Munificents and Acclimators is Ord Mantel which is almost on other side of the Galaxy. And I can't move the Mandalorian Dreadnought from Mandalore because that will just result in Mandalore being taken without its primary defense. So I either have to sacrifice the only place in the Galactic East I can build decent ships and troops, or the only place that brings in money.

Really I just need to abandon the East entirely and let the Rebels have it, but at that point why the heck are Black Sun even there? Is it just because there's a bunch of generic bad guy planets there?

Originally posted by crazyivan067:

well considering tyber and urai are in longe range vessels not meant to be alone they would be outclassed by close range combat with dreadnoughts or rebel one, your cheap fighters are meant to be used in numbers excluding the starviper, your ships are cheaper than the other factions so you can get a numbers advantage pretty fast if you jut buy acclamators and munificents [/quote]

I did swarm them fighters, I managed to knock out all their fighter escorts, but after that the fighters can't actually do anything other than fly around and get shot down. I did use Munificents and some frigate/corvettes, and they did their job, but not well enough to shield Urai and Tyber, who got knocking out Juno's Nebulon and the other Nebulons.

I'd have brought more ships to the fight, but the only place I can build Munificents and Acclimators is Ord Mantel which is almost on other side of the Galaxy. And I can't move the Mandalorian Dreadnought from Mandalore because that will just result in Mandalore being taken without its primary defense. So I either have to sacrifice the only place in the Galactic East I can build decent ships and troops, or the only place that brings in money.

Really I just need to abandon the East entirely and let the Rebels have it, but at that point why the heck are Black Sun even there? Is it just because there's a bunch of generic bad guy planets there? [/quote]
i mean technically the black sun never had ANY territory in lore, so they needed worlds that did have some criminal background, or planets that didn't have any strong affilation

Guys, I got back in and tried out the strategy I suggested and by the Spirits of all the Jedi it works. Abandon Dathomir, Selucami, Jabim and The Weel and move the fleets to Mandalore. Build Fang Fighters at Mandalore and another Acclimator at Ord Mantel and take that fleet through Ithor. Link the Venators and Acclimators to Mandalore, leaving Viggo's Fist and some of the Corvettes at Ithor. If the Empire wakes up, retreat from battle and they seem to just get bored and leave.

When the Rebeles hit any of the Planets you abandoned, use the opportunity to spot their character ships then send IG-88 and Boba Fett to neutralize them. I got rid of General Dodonna and Alyson that way. Then use your fleet to first take on any Rebel fleet near Mandalore, and that leaves their North East relatively open. I now own Yavin and I'm working on my plans to link up the Fondor Pocket with Ord Mantel, then Fondor to Bespin, then a Grand Southern Campaign.

But you have to abandon those worlds first.