My discussion was removed too, reason is they don't like it when someone criticizes their effort.

Blah blah blah they worked hard on it blah blah blah it's free stop criticizing blah blah blah if you dont like it leave blah blah blah it's a private forum we do what we want blah blah blah

Modders seem to have a streak for being communist asshats who can't take criticism, even when literally all of it is constructive.

Originally posted by Angered Eunuch:

Blah blah blah they worked hard on it blah blah blah it's free stop criticizing blah blah blah if you dont like it leave blah blah blah it's a private forum we do what we want blah blah blah

Modders seem to have a streak for being communist asshats who can't take criticism, even when literally all of it is constructive.

True, obviously, as my thread was telling them basically that they wasted time on new Osiris update and should've made just straight FI3, hurt their feelings badly.

Hi, "communist asshat" who removed the discussions here.
I will address the removed topics one at a time:
1. Noodlerules' "Changes that need to be made" discussion:
I did not remove this discussion at first because there was valid criticism in that topic. Too many bots in early waves, people wanting more maps, etc. Some of this has been addressed in patches, and some will be addressed in the future. However, the discussion quickly devolved into "things I do not like about this mod", which I do not feel is a healthy discussion to maintain. Yes, this mod is harder than before. Yes, the gold gain is not as much as it was before. Yes, sometimes it takes a long time before you respawn. This is by design, and will not be fundamentally changed. Perhaps it would have been better if I had left a reply stating as much there and locked the thread. Rest assured though, the actually conscructive criticism in that thread has been noted and will be considered.

2. El Prezidente's "Osiris update wasn't worth making" discussion:
In your opinion, older versions of the mod were superior and we should not have updated the mod. Fine, that's how you feel. You stated your case, I replied to your points, and we ended up in a circular discussion.

These are the only two discussions removed from this forum that had any replies to them.

3. Angered Eunuch
Not entirely sure what your point here is? We welcome criticism, as long as it is constructive. A thread filled with "I don't like this thing, change it", while not toxic, is not constructive. However, the essence remains the same. We make mods a certain way because that's how we want to make them. The privilege modders have is that they don't need to pander to an audience. If people fundamentally disagree with the design of a mod, there is literally 0 reason for them to play the mod, or for us to change the mod to the way they want it to be. Modders have no obligation to take your criticism into consideration, just like you have no obligation to continue to play the mod.
I understand that the situation is somewhat different when a mod gets updated to a design you don't like. All I can say there is sorry, but tough luck. Go make an "Osiris sucks let's play Amber" Steam group and Discord for all I care. There's bound to be more people who prefer the old version.

Originally posted by FI2 Maroon:

Hi, "communist asshat" who removed the discussions here.
I will address the removed topics one at a time:
1. Noodlerules' "Changes that need to be made" discussion:
I did not remove this discussion at first because there was valid criticism in that topic. Too many bots in early waves, people wanting more maps, etc. Some of this has been addressed in patches, and some will be addressed in the future. However, the discussion quickly devolved into "things I do not like about this mod", which I do not feel is a healthy discussion to maintain. Yes, this mod is harder than before. Yes, the gold gain is not as much as it was before. Yes, sometimes it takes a long time before you respawn. This is by design, and will not be fundamentally changed. Perhaps it would have been better if I had left a reply stating as much there and locked the thread. Rest assured though, the actually conscructive criticism in that thread has been noted and will be considered.

2. El Prezidente's "Osiris update wasn't worth making" discussion:
In your opinion, older versions of the mod were superior and we should not have updated the mod. Fine, that's how you feel. You stated your case, I replied to your points, and we ended up in a circular discussion.

These are the only two discussions removed from this forum that had any replies to them.

3. Angered Eunuch
Not entirely sure what your point here is? We welcome criticism, as long as it is constructive. A thread filled with "I don't like this thing, change it", while not toxic, is not constructive. However, the essence remains the same. We make mods a certain way because that's how we want to make them. The privilege modders have is that they don't need to pander to an audience. If people fundamentally disagree with the design of a mod, there is literally 0 reason for them to play the mod, or for us to change the mod to the way they want it to be. Modders have no obligation to take your criticism into consideration, just like you have no obligation to continue to play the mod.
I understand that the situation is somewhat different when a mod gets updated to a design you don't like. All I can say there is sorry, but tough luck. Go make an "Osiris sucks let's play Amber" Steam group and Discord for all I care. There's bound to be more people who prefer the old version.

You've got balls to delete suggestions you disagree with and then pass them off as toxic merely because you disagree with them. Not a single one of us has said that you need to do certain things, but we've merely stated what we want. If this offends you may I remind you that you are on steam forums. What I see here is someone who worked hard on his creation, therefore cultivating a disorder known as "Artist syndrome", where you begin to close off to all criticism and treat your creation like its your baby. I work in an industry very similar to this one, for little pay, and if I reacted to criticism, harsh or not, by lashing out and deleting all opposition I would quickly become anathema. Why? Because I cater to a group of people. You find out what the group desires and give it to them. That is how this should work, at least, if you want it to be successful.

And you tell me it is your mod, so you can develop it as you want. That's true, but unless you give the people what they want, a multiplayer mod cannot succeed. You are probably young to have not learned this hard lesson yet. And yes, people are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and no it's not me and my dog, it's quite a few. I personally stopped playing because I got fed up of being killed by invisible bots, invisible walls, my sword refusing to operate, or if not that, a CTD. I'm sorry if my or anyone else's deleted criticism saps your fun in developing the mod, please accept this tissue as a token of my gratitude. You're bound to be for a few more tissues once you realize people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about what you want in the mod in a mod created for the players, only what they want, it's human psychology lad.

I understand I may have worded it somewhat vaguely, but I went out of my way to say that suggestions we've had so far were not toxic ("A thread filled with "I don't like this thing, change it", while not toxic, is not constructive"). I have also not removed suggestions I do not agree with. I have removed discussions I felt had run its course and were turning away from being constructive. Perhaps I was too quick in that, and I will keep that in mind in the future. But if I was deleting discussions based on what I like or not this discussion would not be live.

I am also not saying that our mod is perfect the way it is. It's not, we know that. What I am saying, however, is that we cannot act on criticism based on the fundamental ideas of the mod. We've created our mod based on certain ideas that some people don't agree with or don't like. A comparison could be drawn to a game that switches genre. For example, I like RTS games, but most RTS games are (or were) being replaced with MOBA games. I don't like MOBA games, so I'd prefer a MOBA game to be an RTS game. But the people who made the game can't just revert it back to an RTS, because there's other people out there who prefer MOBAs, and maybe the developers themselves do too.

Furthermore, my point is that precisely because this is a mod we have the luxury of creating it the way we want. Does shutting out criticism mean people will stop to play it? Sure, if people don't like it they'll stop. That's why we address the issues that are (in our eyes) valid, like the fact that waves were too big, or that so many people were crashing, or that there's not enough maps. But we're not changing the fundamental design philosophy because a vocal group does not like it.

TL;DR: We made changes that people disagree with. We're not reverting the ones we are convinced of because some people disagree with them.

Originally posted by Richard Pryor:

You've got balls to delete suggestions you disagree with and then pass them off as toxic merely because you disagree with them. Not a single one of us has said that you need to do certain things, but we've merely stated what we want. If this offends you may I remind you that you are on steam forums. What I see here is someone who worked hard on his creation, therefore cultivating a disorder known as "Artist syndrome", where you begin to close off to all criticism and treat your creation like its your baby. I work in an industry very similar to this one, for little pay, and if I reacted to criticism, harsh or not, by lashing out and deleting all opposition I would quickly become anathema. Why? Because I cater to a group of people. You find out what the group desires and give it to them. That is how this should work, at least, if you want it to be successful.

And you tell me it is your mod, so you can develop it as you want. That's true, but unless you give the people what they want, a multiplayer mod cannot succeed. You are probably young to have not learned this hard lesson yet. And yes, people are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and no it's not me and my dog, it's quite a few. I personally stopped playing because I got fed up of being killed by invisible bots, invisible walls, my sword refusing to operate, or if not that, a CTD. I'm sorry if my or anyone else's deleted criticism saps your fun in developing the mod, please accept this tissue as a token of my gratitude. You're bound to be for a few more tissues once you realize people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about what you want in the mod in a mod created for the players, only what they want, it's human psychology lad.

Regarding the point you made about the mod-project being his baby: You are correct at this point. A developer will at most times love what he created and thus not be willing to change a lot of stuff here. Only, and here the differences appear, it is not a business they are doing here but a hobby in their free time, they don't have to orientate on what people like. There are succesful mod developers out there (especially in the M&B scene) who don't give a ♥♥♥♥ what the players of their mod are thinking as well as there are the ones who listen to everything what the players want and still fail in the end. The key is to find a proper place between. Like Maroon mentioned already, they have a design philosophy which they won't change, no matter what the community thinks.

I cannot say how popular this mod will be in the future, only currently it seems to be rather popular. This indicates for me that it is what a not so little part of the M&B community wanted and thus a succesful multiplayer mod. And they read through the comments and pick up suggestions if they are fitting to their philosophy, so they are even improving it for the community.

Not a single one of us has said that you need to do certain things, but we've merely stated what we want.

You find out what the group desires and give it to them. That is how this should work, at least, if you want it to be successful.

First, this two sentences are contradicting each other ;)
Second, how do the developers know who that group is and what they desire? Since there is a silent majority and on both sides player either approving the new version or people like you disapproving it and making suggestions on how to improve it? How to know who is making up the majority?

You wrote above that the developers will be bound to tissues realizing that people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ what developers want in a mod created for players. Now I only want to hand you out a few tissues too since it seems you are in the category of players about whose wants the developers probably also don't give a ♥♥♥♥. It's again, as you wrote, human psychology.

Originally posted by FI2 Maroon:

Noodlerules' "Changes that need to be made" discussion:
I did not remove this discussion at first because there was valid criticism in that topic. Too many bots in early waves, people wanting more maps, etc. Some of this has been addressed in patches, and some will be addressed in the future. However, the discussion quickly devolved into "things I do not like about this mod", which I do not feel is a healthy discussion to maintain. Yes, this mod is harder than before. Yes, the gold gain is not as much as it was before. Yes, sometimes it takes a long time before you respawn. This is by design, and will not be fundamentally changed. Perhaps it would have been better if I had left a reply stating as much there and locked the thread. Rest assured though, the actually conscructive criticism in that thread has been noted and will be considered.

Ok thank you.

I already noticed lower numbers on servers (around 50), now not sure if it is because people already got bored of this mod, it could also be fault of many bugs and glitches, game-breaking lag created by banners, or crashing everytime the server changes maps. I will keep my eye on this mod, but I won't be playing because I got bored rather quickly. TBH there was not a single moment I thought Amber is boring because of lack of content, but in the end it's your decision and your responsibility.

Originally posted by El Prezidente:

I already noticed lower numbers on servers (around 50), now not sure if it is because people already got bored of this mod, it could also be fault of many bugs and glitches, game-breaking lag created by banners, or crashing everytime the server changes maps. I will keep my eye on this mod, but I won't be playing because I got bored rather quickly. TBH there was not a single moment I thought Amber is boring because of lack of content, but in the end it's your decision and your responsibility.

The lower numbers of players is something I also noticed. Only there might be different possible reasons for this beside it getting boring already:
1) There are now more servers and people are distributed among them
2) The amount of around 50-60 player is the best, more players are making the game boring since not everyone can attack at once. At the opening event there have been 140 players and there is nothing for you to kill in the third row^^

Also, the mod is now out for two weeks and there is still a bug hunt going on to reduce the crashes. The developers are encouraging players to report these and send their log-file so it can be analyzed what exactly is causing them. Amber needed some time around 6 weeks until most of the bugs could be fixed, so most here might already be solved when you try again in two months.

Originally posted by Limik358:

Originally posted by El Prezidente:

I already noticed lower numbers on servers (around 50), now not sure if it is because people already got bored of this mod, it could also be fault of many bugs and glitches, game-breaking lag created by banners, or crashing everytime the server changes maps. I will keep my eye on this mod, but I won't be playing because I got bored rather quickly. TBH there was not a single moment I thought Amber is boring because of lack of content, but in the end it's your decision and your responsibility.

The lower numbers of players is something I also noticed. Only there might be different possible reasons for this beside it getting boring already:
1) There are now more servers and people are distributed among them
2) The amount of around 50-60 player is the best, more players are making the game boring since not everyone can attack at once. At the opening event there have been 140 players and there is nothing for you to kill in the third row^^

Also, the mod is now out for two weeks and there is still a bug hunt going on to reduce the crashes. The developers are encouraging players to report these and send their log-file so it can be analyzed what exactly is causing them. Amber needed some time around 6 weeks until most of the bugs could be fixed, so most here might already be solved when you try again in two months.

Unless you can fix the invisible bots and weapon glitch there's no point to playing the game.

Originally posted by FI2 Maroon:

.
3. Angered Eunuch
Not entirely sure what your point here is? We welcome criticism, as long as it is constructive. A thread filled with "I don't like this thing, change it", while not toxic, is not constructive. However, the essence remains the same. We make mods a certain way because that's how we want to make them. The privilege modders have is that they don't need to pander to an audience. If people fundamentally disagree with the design of a mod, there is literally 0 reason for them to play the mod, or for us to change the mod to the way they want it to be. Modders have no obligation to take your criticism into consideration, just like you have no obligation to continue to play the mod.
I understand that the situation is somewhat different when a mod gets updated to a design you don't like. All I can say there is sorry, but tough luck. Go make an "Osiris sucks let's play Amber" Steam group and Discord for all I care. There's bound to be more people who prefer the old version.

I have to say I really dislike this sentiment. While it is your mod and you CAN do whatever you want with it, that does not mean that should not pander to the audience. If you want to ignore the populace you definitley have the right to, but it will of course cost you players (which you may or may not care about). Many of us who are heavily criticizing the mod are not doing so attempting to seem toxic or non-constructive, but because we are those who have been with FI since its infancy, and wish to see it continue to grow and prosper. I have a deep love for this mod and I have been following it for years, and all my suggestions are posted in the hopes that the mod will reach its full potentional. That being said, there should be abosolutely no aspect of the mod that is not susceptible to change, whether it be the "fundamentals" or be it something small and insignificant. There are undoubtedly mod fundamentals that you developers may have felt were good ideas, but once put into action were found lacking by the populace. But this is not a bad thing. While it is understandable that you are reluctant to change something you have spent so many hours on, it is imperative that you fully consider each criticism and weigh their merits to adapt the game. Of course, there will be small groups that will be overly vocal who pitch extreme ideas that would never work. But as of now the large majority of criticism is fairly based and rational, and I do hope you take ALL forms of criticism into consideration, and not dismiss anything even if it disagrees with the "fundamentals".

this is too much for me to read but all i can say is
































dab on them haters lmao

and also its spelt "deleted" not "deleated"

To quote Maroon "Yes, the gold gain is not as much as it was before. Yes, sometimes it takes a long time before you respawn. This is by design, and will not be fundamentally changed. ".

While I understand why these changes were made, you really should debate a bit more about this with the community before finalizing your decision. I have played every single invasion mod/version out there for extensive hours. What Amber boils down to is almost allways the same. Even if you are the top of the scoreboard, by wave 10 you can still not buy good armor unless you have only been playing with a single sword while the bots come in with full armor and superior numbers against naked hobos. At this point whenever I'm playing, I basicly acknowledge that around wave 10-15 we will all the wiped and it really does happen. Why? Nobody can buy fun weapons like in Amber anymore, nobody can afford elite soldiers, nobody even gets close to the heroes who by the way are not as strong as they used to be. Even if you can afford to become a hero, you will most likely be alone. No longer do you see single hero clutches so often. All you can see are ranger or cavalry clutches which take 30 minutes. Now I understand that things will be changed and updated. I also love the mod and still play it sometimes non-stop. But please do not dismiss any comment that your community makes just because you have decided that a certain change you made is perfect. I can see perhaps that the hardcore community with clans and events could want the game to be harder but for the casual players this will hurt. No, nobody will do shieldwalls, nobody will change tactics according to enemy types in every round, nobody will join the same faction to get buffs because everybody wants to play the way they want and kill those pesky bots. At least in casual anyway. Sure sometimes a miracle happens and people cooperate, which are the best moments of this mod. However you can't balance a game based on a miracle that happens once every bloodmoon.


I loved the race to legendary weapons in older versions. The thrill of becoming a hero. Becoming a god. Kicking orcs to death as a troll, killing my former minions as Sauron. Throwing a legendary potatoe(or whatever that was) to kill a group of enemies. I really don't miss the barricades to be honest.

But I also all the new UI changes and balance changes of Osiris. I love the new faction system. Before there used to be a lot of messy and garbage factions. Now they are all fun to play. Some lack heroes but I'm sure they will be added. I love the way bots assault the place from different angles. Overall I'd say I'm quite content with Osiris but like I said, being a hobo all the time even if you have the top kills is a shame. I originally wanted to write a full review myself but decided to post here when I saw your comment. Keep up the good work!