Torchlight II

Torchlight II

Theolentist Class (v.2757)
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Chat  [developer] Apr 11, 2013 @ 6:01am
Player Feedback: Balance Issues
Please discuss possible balance issues with this class here. I cannot guarantee that every suggestion will be implemented, but I do take player comments into consideration. Thanks for your time everyone and I hope you are having fun.
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Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
Theo =UwU= Apr 13, 2013 @ 1:03pm 
The Physics tree seems a bit underpowered. I cannot speak for the other trees because I havent played too much of them yet, but the abilities don't hit very hard, and your auto attacks are slow and hard to line up. Yes, the knockback resistance from the passive helps against stationary enemies, but against teleporting enemies, or anything fast, you're out of luck.

IMO, A base damage needs to be added to Kinetic Flurry and Holy Vector, and the Volatic Crusader passive needs to also include attack speed with Polearms and staves, not just 2-handed-weapons in general, as opposed to the engineer passive.
Repost from my wall comment:
Hi, VERY VERY nice, I had quick look around skills and it seems pretty cleaned up.
From my quick play with your class the only remarks I ahve are: the "two hand ranged weapons" does not include cannons... why?
Also the Ice beam percentual damage from weapon dps looks low and grows too slowly.
Very nice quills skills, to get a better feeling have you considered having more and smaller projectiles (the side visual effects with quills however look very nice)
Again very nice work! seems balanced enough.
For the leap, have you considered using the Outlander backflip animation reversed? (if that is even possible)
Hood job, keep it up! :D
MegaBass Apr 16, 2013 @ 1:44pm 
alright been playing just a bit of the biology tree, and the spore skill just seems like a spamming fk fest, its a cool spell but gets really tedious after a while, maybe double the mana cost, reduce the total summon amount (to 6?) but double there hp and summon duration.... also for the "egg icon skill" a 1% proc chance is awful, I seriously was summoning the most pathetic looking creatures with that spell and just felt like I was wasting skill points, maybe bumping that to 5%?
Drathmar Apr 18, 2013 @ 8:00pm 
I have been playing a Physicist with some skills from astronomy. Str based (3/2 str vit split until vit at 100 or so unbuffed), using polearms. Due to voltaic crusader giving more physical armor than you could ever use and not having the "melee" class 25% less damage buff I have been prioritizing elemental armor to stay alive which seems to be working quite well. It is very survivable, but I seem to do very little damage with it. I play synergies elite and most heroic and champion mobs seem to take at least 5 minutes to kill if not more.

As far as the skills themselves (will x-post to balance when done)

Physics:
-Holy Vector: Ok as a gap closer and for the buff if you auto attack between using it. However I wouldn't take it for the damage as the damage misses so often due to the 2 second delay on it that it might as well not be there.
-Kinetic Flurry: Pretty decent as a CC/Damage mix ability. The tornados seem to miss the target right in front of you though so those are only good in large groups, but still do ok damage and it does decent damage overall with a nice stun chance.
-Electron Veil: I would say mandatory for any melee theolentist build due to how much survivability it gives you between the reduced damage and the stun chance. Not overpowered though as a lot of champions and heroic mobs seem to be immune to stun. Very nice skill. At least 5 point, most likely max out.
-Inertial Relic: I have tried it, and there is one slight bug with it where it is unusable unless you auto attack something first. Aside from that, the initial damage is bad, almost non-existant and the dot, while decent damage, is not enough to kill anything on it's own when monsters typically have 10k+ health and it does a total of 800 or so damage around lvl 40 with ilvl 30 and a 353 base dps polearm.
-Magnetic Sermon: Not bad, the damage is mediocre but the debuff is pretty strong and helps survivability, and once you get the shield break chance it is much appreciated as well.
-Conductive Strike: Overpowered if you can position it correctly. With the general stats listed in inertial relic, I can easily do 6-10k damage with this skill alone if you can position right on top of something to get hit by all the balls plus the pillars that come out. However there seems to be a bug where it says electric damage taken reduced by 0 for 10 seconds on it no matter how many ranks.
-Quantum Penance: Honestly, I have only been able to put 4 points into it so far, and I do not really notice it. It sounds good, and I am pretty sure it is working and making things die quicker, but it is just a skill that is really hard to notice the effects of.
-Voltaic Crusader: Really good, with a 353 dps weapon I have +416 physical armor which is quite a bit. The resistances are nice, and it does not seem OP since it only gives physical armor.
-Godspeed: Ok, nice for the movespeed, and pretty good if you are lucky enough to get a lot of divine intervention procs for survivability. I just put points into it when I have nothing else to put points into.
-Atomic Blessing: I have honestly found it very lacking, to the point I took all points out of it due to it not healing enough to help at all vs mobs on elite synergy though I imagine it is good at lower difficulties... but potions just heal for more per second and on elite when it seems you have to have a potion almost constantly ticking this doesn't even matter... at lvl 40 with max ranks it does around 60 hps iirc when potions are doing over 300hps.

Astronomy Tree (only the skills I use or have used):
-Heavens Gate: Amazing for getting out of tight situation and I would take it for that even without the extra effects. That said, I almost feel like the skill would work better if it worked like phasing where the effect happens at both ends and not just the starting end, at least for a melee theolentist. I don't see much point in more than 1 point for a melee theolentist otherwise.
-Cosmic Bolts: Absolutely amazing, and makes me wish I had gone a full focus build melee theolentis as I feel this skill would be incredibly overpowered with focus upping the damage even higher. With only 46 focus it is by far the most damage skill for a melee theolentist I have found that is somewhat spammable. Outdamages Intertial Relic, Kinetic Flurry, and Holy Vector while also giving amazing survivability do to the knockback (keeps small mobs off you so you can focus the knockback immune big ones) and the slight damage absorption seems to actually help. The blue planetoids act pretty much like a dot vs most champions and heroics in melee, and does more damage than the interial relic dot by quite a margin.
Holy Vector's severe delay and unpleasant tendency to miss whatever you're trying to kill make it a sad and flimsy ability.

The damage is fine, the buffs are great, the concept is sound, but that explosion lag makes it a bore to use compared with other gap-closing tools like the vanilla engineer's Ember Reach, which turns what might otherwise be a generic utility into a flurry of kickass electric ropes.

As Holy Vector stands now, it's in this uneasy middle ground between damaging charge and combat opener, and should probably be moved to the direction of one of those.

Chat  [developer] Apr 19, 2013 @ 2:04pm 
Thanks for the feedback. Holy Vector (along with a few other skills) hits MUCH harder in the next release. Fixing the delay on the burst is a very difficult task. I don't see myself having time to do it in the near future unfortunately, although its one of those things I've attempted a few times.
Atomic Blessing could use a buff. I think the health restoration would work better as a percent of your total health rather than a flat number, like the Berzerker's Shadow Burst skill.
Chat  [developer] Apr 21, 2013 @ 1:33pm 
Thanks for the feedback Sting. I agree about Atomic Blessing being based on a percentage of health. It's probably going to happen eventually. Implementing it is a little tricky though--Atomic Blessing is a rarity among powers in that it doesn't do anything itself, it passes along a variable to your character that is called by other spells to render an effect.

What this means in technical terms is the calling skill can't reference Atomic Blessing directly by spell rank, resulting in every rank of the power having to be fed a single Affix which uses a property called a Stat Modifier to adjust the healing and charge regen. Affixes can only be adjusted by one Stat Mod at a time, and since the Atomic Blessing rank variable is already in use, there is no easy way to modify the healing by other values (character level or max HP for example). There are some possible workarounds I've looked at but none of them are very pretty. TL2 is not really built for this type of spell, so making it come together properly will be a challenge. That said, it wasn't really built for a few other types of spells found in the Theol class but they seem to (more or less) function, so in the long term the change will probably happen.
I understand. What I did notice is that the amount of health restored doesn't improve with level, even though it's marked as such. Could you address that as a short term solution?
Chat  [developer] Apr 24, 2013 @ 5:14am 
Hmm. I thought I unflagged the "improves with level" marker. Maybe I forgot to save.
Zazu Apr 27, 2013 @ 8:11am 
The armor removal in the physics tree was understandable yet the replacement isn't acceptable, there needs to be something better to mitigate damage imo at least until you get Atomic Blessing to work properly.

Damage wise, I don't know, I admittedly am lvl 61 wearing level 100 gear (lol 2 level 100's I am so not roughing it anymore) but we'll see once my gear and level start equalizing.
Blue May 6, 2013 @ 2:55pm 
I really enjoy the changes made to exalted ammo; made me pick up Astronomy again.
One problem I do have though is the scaling of lucient beam. It's a often overlooked skill with amazing potential for channeled burst damage, as well as being a quick, mana-efficient ranged slow(plus it looks great; I mean you're releasing a gospel of northern lights.) Right now the damage is a bit too low for it to compare to some late game damage we can see in other skills(photo-ammo.)
I suggest giving it a buff nudging it's damage up a bit, and maybe having it relay a few more weapon effects, while having a higher mana cost.
Also, I hope nova gets some love in future patches, I like the idea of the skill, but there is never really a time to use it.
Drathmar May 23, 2013 @ 3:31pm 
Updating my former feedback now that I have had time to start playing again:

Physics:
-Holy Vector: Same, damage is better but does not matter with the delay. Honestly, I think this would be better as a gap closer + defensive buff as a defensive buff is sorely needed on this class
-Kinetic Flurry: Pretty decent as a CC/Damage mix ability. The crit chance now makes it better and into a decent skill, but hard to use now as you can't stand in place to use it without dying on harder difficulties
-Electron Veil: Still good, but a lot of mobs are not stunned and the damage reduction is not enough at all and does nothing vs larger boss mobs, the thing this type of theolentist has the most trouble with
-Inertial Relic: The skill is a lot better now and probably the best skill you have as it gives damage and mobility in one and currently the only way I can see playing a melee theolentist is as a kiting dps on higher difficulty
-Magnetic Sermon: Not bad, the damage is mediocre but the debuff is pretty strong and helps survivability, and once you get the shield break chance it is much appreciated as well. Only problem is right now I see this class wanting to be much more mobile which this does not help with
-Conductive Strike: Good skill, still does a lot of damage, hwoever like the other ones, with the other changes to the class it seems much much harder to use now as this class needs some kind of defense buff as it dies so quickly now.
-Quantum Penance: Honestly, I have only been able to put 4 points into it so far, and I do not really notice it. It sounds good, and I am pretty sure it is working and making things die quicker, but it is just a skill that is really hard to notice the effects of.
-Voltaic Crusader: Seems really bad now. The dodge is worthless vs boss mobs when you die in 2 hits anyway and cannot kill them quick enough where they cannot get the two hits in (this is vs ones doing physical damage when I have 700 physical damage, lvl 41, with lvl 40+ gear)
-Godspeed: Ok, nice for the movespeed, and pretty good if you are lucky enough to get a lot of divine intervention procs for survivability. I just put points into it when I have nothing else to put points into.
-Atomic Blessing: Better now, still not sure it is worth it as potions still seem to do a lot more than this, though it does help you survive a little bit longer.

Astronomy Tree (only the skills I use or have used):
-Heavens Gate: Amazing for getting out of tight situation and I would take it for that even without the extra effects.
-Cosmic Bolts: Absolutely amazing, even after the changes and 5 second cd, and still makes me wish I had gone a full focus build melee theolentis as I feel this skill would be incredibly overpowered with focus upping the damage even higher. With only 46 focus it is by far the most damage skill for a melee theolentist I have found that is somewhat spammable. Outdamages Kinetic Flurry, and Holy Vector, and seems about even with Inertial relic now, however with the changes to voltaic crusader the survivability is nowhere near as noticable as it was before, at least as I am leveling (lvl 46)
Last edited by Drathmar; May 23, 2013 @ 3:32pm
Shmitz Jun 4, 2013 @ 1:16am 
I've been trying to play a melee Theolentist and have been having a pretty rough time of it. I'm not too far in and so have not gotten a chance to see how much difference Electron Veil or Atomic Blessing might make, but I have been getting one-shot way more frequently than with any other class I've tried leveling, and I have been pumping points into Vitality every level. My experience has largely been enemies either deal so little damage I don't notice my health bar going down at all, or I am getting hit for over a thousand damage. This is so atypical I figured I should mention it here, just in case it's actually a glitch.
Abadi Jul 25, 2013 @ 7:50pm 
Nova is a bit too overpowered.
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