Crusader Kings II

Crusader Kings II

Western Europe 410-962 - The Winter King
Suggestions
Hello,

first of all. I really enjoyed playing this mod. Me and 4 friends have played the mod for several hours now an I was amazed of the map and the Idea behind the mod. Though this was a great experience I think the mod is in a strange shape and could be enhanced fundamentally. Here are some of my thoughts that really got on our nerfs.

1. genetic traits appear to often.
Problem with this is nearly every char ends up having these traits. They are either dull or strong or even both at the same time. This can easily be seen in a regular playtrough. Those % of appearing could be moved back to vanilla and events giving these traits should be tuned down to a minimum.

2. stats difference
Some important Character's have huge stats which is somewhat okay. Those tend to die out after some time. Sadly a lot of the other chars and I can't really determine how this happened have gained stats beyond anything. Leaving them with stats above 30 or even 40. Bare in mind that vanilla treats 20+ stats as close to legendary. This could be caused by 1. But im not entirely sure.

3. Lack of expansion options
I love how you tied war declarations to prestige. This system should defenatly be kept. But you should add a war casus belli to expand within the realm. Like a 400 Prestige cb with a cooldown that allows you to conquer a neighbouring province of the same realm. So that Dukes can fight each other over provinces.

4. Lack of possibility to play minors
You can easily pick a King and rule Britannia. (Or not^^) But you can't defenatly do much with a Duke or even lower type char. This is caused by the huge difference in Troops and the lack of a cb mentioned in 3.

5. Troop speed
In your defines.lua the movement speed of units is set to 7. Making it possible to move a proving within a day. Same goes for ships. We modified this back to vanilla values (to 3 from 7) which made it a lot better but still not totally satisfying. You should try to increase the time it takes to move units around.

6. Events
A lot of the Event chains seem to fire couple of times and are broken. Those should not fire more than once. Those are mostly the foundation of Titles event.

7. Prestige and Levisize
There's a modifier tied to the amount of prestige and the number of troops you have. This is a good idea in the first place but the penalties are way to strong. Basically its a death spiral. Your King dies and your heir has no prestige. Resulting in a up to - 40 modifier and Troops to all your vassals. I like the idea behind this but the modifier should be balanced a bit more.

8. Money
You have either no money or to much money. The balance went off there a lot. Basically tribals have no money unless they raid which gives them to much money in the short time. And feudals get to much money overall. Those should be adjusted.


These are my current thoughts I can make sense of. If I run into more Ill post it here. I also am experienced in modding prdx games and would help out with this mod if help is appreciated.
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Showing 1-15 of 74 comments
KallarDuskwood Apr 1, 2018 @ 3:40pm 
9. Assaination in diplomatic option
Please remove this. This is a relic of the past and you should not be able to assasinate people with money.

(forgot about that)
DC2357  [developer] Apr 2, 2018 @ 2:48pm 
1. The Better Congential Traits mod is integrated. The idea is that the scaling of congential traits is improved by adding weaker versions of the intelligence, strength, etc. traits. Obviously if we're keeping approximately with vanilla ratios for the vanilla congential traits there will be more characters who have the weaker versions, and it's fully intentional that a character could easily have multiple such traits (though unless you've been running your eugenics program they're not likely to be particularly strong ones). Most of the new traits are quite weak, with only a small modifier either way, and are really more flavour than really gameplay-changing.
2. Where are their stats coming from, base stats or traits?
3. Could you elaborate on who you're playing as (i.e. realm, culture, government)? Different cultures and governments have widely varying cbs and playstyles. In general though, vassals are meant to try to overthrow their liege and seize the throne for themselves, if you want to accrue more power.
4. Could you elaborate on the "huge difference in troops"? I don't think the mod is actually very different from vanilla in this regard.
5. While we do acknowledge that this can improve gameplay, we don't want to make troop movements unrealistically slow. The provinces on the map are quite small and it really shouldn't take more than a day or two for an army to march from one province to the next.
6. Could you specify which events exactly are broken?
7. (Low) Tribal realms that are any bigger than maybe a duchy or so are intended to collapse upon succession, unless your heir is quite strong; this is the tradeoff for the powerful Tribal cbs. Playing as a Tribal is intended to be harsh and volatile; if you're looking for something more stable, play as or reform into High Tribal or a feudal government.
8. We are looking into nerfing feudal incomes, which should resolve the problem of raiding giving too much gold.
9. Isn't there already a game rule to disable it (which is activated by default), or does the game rule not actually work?

If you're interested in helping out more closely with the mod, we'd be more than happy to have you; just send me a message and I'll set you up.
Last edited by DC2357; Apr 2, 2018 @ 2:50pm
KallarDuskwood Apr 3, 2018 @ 8:04am 
1. No they are in fact better than vanilla. For example quick gives +3 on every stat in vanilla and gives +4 on every stat in the mod.

2. both. Base stats are a bit to high. But main problem here results from traits that are insane. Good example is Arthur that gets total of 29 Martial from traits. While I know that this is intended its not that hard to breed superwarriors that totally wreck every ai ingame. Winning 300 Men vs 4000

3. , 4. and 7. Basically every non King. You have numbers of less than 200 Troops as for example a pictish King. This would not be a problem if you could attack and take over other same tier nobles. But you cant since its either a 5k prestige cb or in the same realm as you are.
Reducing the amount of levis is not a good way todo things. In my opinion you have to ask yourself is a game mechanic fun? Loosing your complete realm because you don't have prestige on your heir is a very sad thing because you can't do anything to prevent this really. Its not like you could inherit some prestige of your father. Like it was IRL.

5. No... This is absolutely gamebreaking. You cant even manage to control your units on speed 1. Open up a multiplayer and do a 1v1 fight Durmonia vs Anglia and you will exactly know what I mean. Also the argument that the provinces are small is not really an argument. We are talking about crossing England with a 10k army in less than a week. This is considered that age only possible with magic... So this has no arguments on gameplay or on logic.


6. Alot of the New realm <NAME HERE> was formed. Events seem to pop up multiple times.

8. Feudal income is in fact very high but I think its more the event that pops up when your lord leads a siege. While I know the reason behind this I still believe this events should be removed in total. Basically you loot a second time up tp 70 gold extra. Giving up to 150 gold per holding... There is already a ck2 mechanic that does exactly the same. When you conquer a holding you loot money from its holder. Dont add another gold gaining mechanic ontop.

9. Yes seems to be fixed now for me. I could swear there was no on plot only option.

DC2357  [developer] Apr 3, 2018 @ 9:12am 
1. This is supposed to be compensated for by genius being less common, and the presence of shrewd instead.

2. Arthur is an exception that is meant to have very high prestige. I suppose some of those traits could be nerfed though.

3/4/7. Checking out a Pictish king right now, I definitely have more than 200 levies. The average Pictish province has at least twice that much. I agree that there is a definite lack of inter-realm tribal levies at the moment, but we've had trouble trying to balance that against the lack of control over your vassals as a tribal, and the fixed nature of the tier system in CK2 (e.g. there isn't really a way to subjguate other rulers if you're a count under a duke).

You're not meant to be able to maintain a large realm as a tribal - there's lots of cases where a tribal realm just completely fell apart when the ruler died, it's already a concession that your vassals don't have an option to just straight up ignore your heir (which I agree would be even more frustrating). If you don't want to see your realm collapse when your great king dies, keep your realm small and use tributaries or something instead, or land your heir to let him build up some prestige. Personally, I've played a number of tribal games and I do quite like seeing the chaos of a large realm collapse - you just have to hedge this into your expectations.

5. Sorry, I don't play multiplayer (and I can't say that the mod is particularly designed for it in mind either). But I usually play wars on speed 2 and I've never really had problems maneuvaring my armies.

6. I don't think we have any events that are titled "new realm". Are you talking about the events for new de jure titles, e.g. "Eorldom of Lindesege" and "Eorldom of Cilternsaete"?

8. We'll take a look at it.
KallarDuskwood Apr 4, 2018 @ 8:48am 
1. This was just an example. They are better in general. And no they dont apear less ofthen than in vanilla. Those have in fact 940 chanche to appear on every born char even if the parents dont have the trait which is 9.4%

2. Sure he is but I can easily breed 40 martial warriors from scratch

3/4/7 It is in the beginning but once your -80% of your lacking prestige "buff" strieks you go down by alot...

You say you are not emant to maintain a large realm. This is nonsens becasue you need a large realm to stay in the game and to have a real chanche to cuceed in reforming your nation. Basically what you have done is condemm everey minor to sit around and do nothing.

6. Thats becasue the ai is really really bad. Its just gamebreaking to be able to outmanouvre every enemy unit before they can even react.

6. Exactly.

KallarDuskwood Apr 4, 2018 @ 8:55am 
Also about multiplayer. This mod runs smoothly in multiplayer. Even better than vanilla. This is something that is worth more than anything. This mod could have a huge playerbase if you implement somwaht of a balance. But If you keep developing the mod with singleplayer only in mind this will never be a thing. Basically I understand that this mod can make fun if you play for examnple Anglia King and take over the world. But the options to play are very limited due to the points above. And its really not that hard to generate interesting multiplayer scenarios.
DC2357  [developer] Apr 4, 2018 @ 2:51pm 
1. You're talking about the shrewd trait, which is weaker than the vanilla quick. The idea is to give a normal distribution of genetic traits; you'll notice that this similarly applies to the 3 negative intelligence traits, which actually give a bigger malus than the positive ones. The idea is to give a larger variance to the genetically determined stats of characters. I suppose we could reduce the incidence a bit, but I've never seen it as much of a problem.

2. What traits are you getting to 40 martial with? That does sound a bit much.

3/4/7. Well, if you're getting an -80% penalty, then that's supposed to be a sign that your realm is seriously overextended. Not sure what you mean by "staying in the game"; low tribals cbs are specifically designed so that getting game-overed is fairly difficult, with the intention being that if you're weak, you'll just be vassalized by your stronger neighbour until that king dies and the whole realm blows up. If you say that it condemns them to "sit around and do nothing", at least in the long run, then yes, Low Tribals are simply not meant to be able to build a sustainable realm beyond a duchy or so; it's all really just a prelude to when you're able to reform the High Tribal, which is when you'll really be able to build up, or at least reasonably hold onto your gains. They're simply not supposed to be able to compete with other realms in the long run; a powerful ruler will be able to rack up the prestige and pose a major threat to everyone else in the region, but once he dies the entire thing folds like a house of cards just as fast. If you don't like the idea of your realm rising up and falling to pieces, then playing Low Tribals just isn't for you.

5. I don't suppose it would help if I said that historically in this era, armies could basically always avoid battles if they really wanted to? :p
More seriously, how exactly is it gamebreaking?

6. Those events signal changes to the de jure map, and (for the most part) are triggered by the formation of their respective titles. Are you sure that it's the same events happening without any actual de jure change? If so, could you upload a save where this happens?

The general philosophy of the mod is that it's meant to be more railroaded/less freeform and closer to a historical simulator than vanilla. And I'm afraid that the mod will always be made with singleplayer in mind first and foremost; certainly we wouldn't mind make improvements that are primarily for multiplayer, but not at the cost of the single player experience or historicity (although I would also add that I don't think that there would be much conflict realistically).
Last edited by DC2357; Apr 4, 2018 @ 2:52pm
KallarDuskwood Apr 5, 2018 @ 2:34am 
1. The whole system seems to be off becasue the positive and the negative traits appear pure random which makes it just a luckshow and defently not fun.

2. Brilliant trategist gives +9 Formitable fighter does also give quite some. Inculding the more genetic traits. In combination with artefacts... There are several ways.

3/4/7 So you condem half the map to not beeing played for at least 50 years?

5. Ck2 has a farily good tactical system where you can use rivers hills etc to fight your opponent. Espacially in mps this is alot of fun. You can easily cross a river ebfore an opopnent can even react. Also you are faster than units on retreat which makes it so you can be in their "save spot" before they arrive and instantly hit them again...

6. I can try. Its often when these get annexed and get free later again. I guess^^

I also dont think there would be a conflict with realism and historicality.
DC2357  [developer] Apr 5, 2018 @ 11:55am 
1. It's certainly less random and more sophisticated than the vanilla genetics system. Genetics is always going to be a bit of a coin flip by its very nature.

2. That's the vanilla value for Brilliant Strategist, and artifacts are more or less the same as well. I suppose the Fighter traits could be nerfed a little bit, now that combat rating is a thing.

3/4/7. Sure it's playable, just not in the way that you'd prefer it to be. Not everything has to be all rise and no fall - in fact, I would ask what the fun and challenge with that is?

How would you suggeat the system be changed to make it more "playable" while still being historical?

5. None of that sounds gamebreaking to me. Positioning your armies in a good defensive position is still perfectly possible.

6. If that's the case, that's completely WAD. All events involving de jure changes are always signalled to the player.
Last edited by DC2357; Apr 5, 2018 @ 12:09pm
isa0005 Apr 8, 2018 @ 5:22am 
I've often felt that combat in CKII was a little uninvolved, the dueling system spces it up, but I'd like to see more.

I'd like to see a tactics system, simmilar to the dueling mechanic, for battles where the player is able to order their forces around and depending on the order, the army might gain some bonus or another. So for example, one might order their spear/sword infantry in their center to perform a shield wall maneuver, or they might want their heavy cavalry divisions on their left/right flank to perform a charge, or their archers to loose a volley of arrows. Some pre battle preparation could be interesting as well, for exaple laying down traps on the battlefield, sending out skirmishers or preparing ambushes or taking up particular positions that depend on the terrain. All of these things could be inffluenced by your leaders abilties, troop types and numbers and could have adverse effects not only on your enemy but your leaders themselves and your own army.
Last edited by isa0005; Apr 8, 2018 @ 5:23am
DC2357  [developer] Apr 10, 2018 @ 9:22am 
Honestly, that just seems like a little bit too much micromanagement that would be better off in a more tactical-focused game.
isa0005 Apr 10, 2018 @ 4:58pm 
Originally posted by DC2357:
Honestly, that just seems like a little bit too much micromanagement that would be better off in a more tactical-focused game.

Well my idea was that it wouldn't happen in every battle (probably should have mentioned that in my OP haha) all the time, perhaps it could be focused specifically on your leader/character, with a small section of soldiers under their command on the battlefield.
Last edited by isa0005; Apr 10, 2018 @ 4:58pm
Scooby Jew Apr 13, 2018 @ 10:16am 
Add Lechium empire
Ognehran Jul 22, 2018 @ 11:33am 
Good evening! I would like to post my suggestion in form of a screenshots with commentaries. In short, I would suggest that the Anglo-Saxon duchy of Beornice is divided into two. Take a look at the link for further details.

https://imgur.com/gallery/VxFrGbC
DC2357  [developer] Jul 22, 2018 @ 5:22pm 
While I do agree that it is slightly annoying as a Roman ruler, we haven't come across any good historical way to split the duchy of Bernicia, and a historical Anglo-Saxon setup takes precedence over some annoyances for an alt-hist Roman playthrough (you can just conquer the area and release it again, or decide to go for the Antonine Wall).
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