make the harem have stupid effects, such as 10% birth rate but with high mortality rates.

how does this integrate with hail colombia?

"Harems". That is an idea! What do you think the laws effects should be? It would require that Polygamy is enacted. Maybe it would work well as a variant of Legal Guardianship now that law variants are a thing.

Anyway, I'm open to the idea. It would be good for flavor in Muslim countries too, I think. I just don't know what the effects of it would be. Maybe a higher than normal birth rate boost for Legal Guardianship to help mitigate the malus from Polygamy.

Hey if you'd make a law mod that adds the option of "Harems" to Women's rights that'd be neat

> How do you create Deseret?

To create Deseret you need to have Mormons actually living in Utah, at which point there are two options. 1) release it as a state using the vanilla mechanism, or 2) trigger the Utah War by making the Mormons upset. The latter option is only possible if you have the Mormon Trail journal entry, which means that you controlled and continue to control Utah at the point the Mormons migrated from Illinois (which only happens if Joseph Smith is killed at Carthage, but that should be the case in almost all games whether or not you are playing the USA).

In my experience, the easiest (and funnest?) way to form Deseret with this mod is to play the USA, support the Mormons but not so much that Joseph Smith achieves recognition, in other words keep the progress bar somewhere in the middle. That way there will be lots of Mormons that travel to Utah. Make sure to conquer California, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico (potential Mormon homelands), and more via Manifest Destiny so that Utah is part of the USA in the late 40s and not Mexico. When Joseph is Killed, do not revere him (basically you go pro-mormon at first and then anti-mormon later). And likewise don't help or support the Mormons during the Mormon Trail events. When Deseret rebels, you can choose sides. Deseret gets some bonuses that make it more feasible for it to capture the Western States and form a viable country.

You could do something similar as Mexico, but then you have to be prepared to defend against AI USA (as usual) and you also might be blocked if the AI USA happens to over-support or over-punish the Mormons and avoids the Carthage event.

> is this compatible with Victorian Flavor mod?

I expect that this mod is not compatible with VFM.

> how does the ai handle the situation say if you play mexico?

The AI will tend to follow the "historical" path for USA based on the event weights, but the AI may, rarely, end up being more pro-mormon or less pro-mormon.

To be specific, if the USA is not player controlled, the AI will mostly likely choose options that lead to some people converting to Mormonism with concentrations moving from Ohio -> Missouri -> Illinois -> Utah. And the AI should generally support events that will mean that there are enough Mormons in the USA to spawn missionary events in countries connected to the USA, but it will almost never allow enough people to convert such that the USA will adopt Mormonism as the state religion.

How do you create Deseret?

is this compatible with Victorian Flavor mod?

how does the ai handle the situation say if you play mexico?

@Commiechu
Thank you for the suggestions! That fits right in with what I was thinking for the "More characters" future plan. Strang might be worth an event too. I will think about it. That reminds me that I need to do more to verify that the existing agitators and potential interest group leaders are actually working as intended.

@Hadi
No. Marriage laws, in particular Polygamy, are a core feature of this mod. But if you are having issues with it, I'm open to how you think it can be improved or fixed.

could u please make a version without the polygamy thing

James Strang: An unlikely claimant in the succession crisis following the assassination of Joseph Smith who surprisingly got a lot of support for a while before ultimately being assassinated. He claimed that the prophet of the church was also invested with kingship.

Joseph Smith III: Son of Joseph Smith and later the leader of the Reorganized LDS church, which was initially primarily united by opposition to polygamy. He was also a hard-core abolitionist and bragged about being one of only 6 people to vote for Fremont in Nauvoo in the 1856 election. He was also a vocal Lincoln supporter.

Sarah Granger Kimball: A founder of Women's Relief Society and a pioneering suffragist. She was a delegate to the Utah Constitutional Convention and organized for suffrage both within the church and the U.S. more broadly.

Some lesser known characters who could be interesting to add for some political variety:

Plotino Rhodakanaty: A founding figure of Mexican Socialism and Anarchism who was also the first elder of the Mormon Church in Mexico.

Louis Bertrand: French (Icarian) Communist revolutionary and journalist. After being a major figure in the 1848 revolution he converted to the LDS Church and headed the French missions while under heavy persecution from Napoleon III. Eventually he led a bunch of French Mormons (many recruited from his revolutionary comrades) to Utah.

Isaac Morley and Sidney Rigdon also had a Utopian Socialist past, having run an Owenite Commune while part of the "Church of Christ" before becoming Mormons. Unlike the two above it's not really clear if they continued in this radical political commitment after conversion.

I've rebalanced how Mormonism spreads.

It is still possible for the AI to get a high number of Mormons in strange places, but such instances should be extremely unlikely now as the AI will generally prefer to keep the Mormon population low. I don't think it is possible to get around the "large state conversion percentage" problem without breaking some of the desirable anachronistic features of the mod, but these changes should make it so that even if India or China allows Mormon missionaries, they will be unlikely to achieve very high numbers. Of course if the player chooses to allow and then favor Mormons as one of those countries, they may see explosive ahistorical growth.

The current spread will still not be "historical," and the population count won't be either (the most likely path will probably lead to a higher Mormon population than history), but it should be much more likely now for there to be a concentration of Mormons in Illinois/Utah rather than elsewhere.

Thank you for the feedback! Yes, I am considering tweaking how the spread works. I'd like it to be possible for ahistorical conversion patterns to happen, but I do think that larger population countries are getting over-converted. If the player wants India to be Mormon, that's great, but I'd like to see less Mormons there when the AI is in charge.

Ultimately, I think final numbers and the number of Mormons in general will probably have to be higher than history just so that they are visible and impactful when the player is encouraging Mormonism. But I'd like to not see so much AI-driven spread. I'm thinking of trying to use "tipping-point style" events where instead of getting a steady drip of converts in response to events there are certain events that give you a lot all at once. Then I can make it less likely for the computer to choose the "get converts" option and also bias the AI choice based on culture, etc.

I enjoy the idea of this mod a lot.

If I were to give some feedback I would recommend a way to narrow where the Mormon events pop up and their frequency, I just played through to 1936 and by the end of the game there were over 30 million Mormons in the world(double the real life total today) and the majority of them were in India and China. I imagine this is because the events work off of percentage and India and China have the most pops so more mormons got converted.
Maybe aim the events to primarily target cultures of European heritage, which would vibe the churches historical views on who could hold the priesthood.

I do really enjoy the mod and like the flavour it brings, keep up the good work!

Hahaha. No not right now. That would be fun though. My wife was just reading A Study in Scarlet. Right now this mod is focused on historical characters and mostly on early Church History. But I will definitely consider possibly adding fictional Mormons for more flavor. That might work well as part of an event. I will think about it.

Would there be John & Lucy Ferrier, Jefferson Hope, Enoch Drebber and Joseph Stangerson?