Where should this go in the load order regarding other big mods?

noticed that the byzantines didnt have council title names. i used with the more bookmarks compatch so maybe thats the issue?

It seems this causes some issues with your liege's councils, as after a while you can't switch tabs from Your Council to Liege's Council.

This mod really masses up some cultures if you use it together with culture expanded mod

Hello dear creators of modifications for Crusader Kings 3! I know that you are one of the creators of the modification: Ethnicities & Portraits Expanded.

I noticed that there is one problem with this modification. If the character dies due to illness or wounds. Then after his death, his portrait is restored. All traces of diseases and wounds are removed....

hey I hope this gets update because there are some problems with it in the eastern countries that have weird names.

I am aware you are rewriting the mod, but a simple bug report... Polish military councilor's possessive title is missing. It should be "marszałkowski" meaning "of Marshałek". If it's irrelevant, feel free to ignore my comment...

This breaks viziers being able to take the place of your spouse, be aware.

Using this made my councillor positions broken? Said they were unfilled.

somehow in my game republic duke level vassal always use landvoget title no matter what culture they are

knight localization problem is caused by two files:
knight_culture_l_english.yml
00_knight_culture.txt

At the moment I'm trying to fix this. So far I've managed to fix it for the French culture, but there are a ton more cultures to fix yet.

Also note that this mod doesn't work well with the Africa Plus mod.

Same here for me with the knights localization.. wondering if anyone can help?

For some reason this messes up the knights names localization for me

The community is dead

Outside of the fact that CTP is discontinued, we have had this discussion many times before.

The Książę and Ksiądz switch happened ~1400s same with Czech.
Żupan is from an Old Slavic root word for tribe that, while probably not widely used in period, fits the strict 5 tier hierarchy better than Wojewoda a word not really used at all until at minimum the 12th century for the Principality of Transylvania. CTP aims for approximate language spelling at 1066.

Again multiple cultures are like this because language changes and the game has strict triggers for tiers, governments, and the like that may require a more liberal approach than just writing the exact title at the exact period with exact spelling.

@Radanos

Actually I am history graduate and a medieval enthusiast :)
So both as Pole and historian - I ask you for your sources. Where did you get your words that none of the historians use. What proves they were used in terms of titling back then. Do you have any written sources? We talk about the language, so you should. I am curious.

Show me how do you know more about the evolution of polish language and niuances of its use than a native Pole who spend decades not only speaking it but also learning about it. Looking through the comment section I see I am not the only one who asks you for that.
You talk about the immersion - all of these comment exist because we can't feel that immersion playing our own country. What an audacity it is to think "naaah, these polish guys are all wrong! I know more about their language!".

Or maybe - just maybe - you are the one who should educate yourself before trying to force your vision?

For the love of...
Please, if you have no knowledge of the language history, don't try to correct the well researched titles just because you're a Pole and you don't know the words or they seem alien. From my understanding, this project tries to immerse you in the world by trying to recreate the most appropriate language used for that time. Please educate yourselfs before trying to force your vision.

"Prince" is "Książę" while "Ksiądz" means priest.
Even if these words have similar roots (as well as rus Kniaź or czech Kníže), in fact one comes from another, using it like this looks just hilarious.

First ruler of Poland, Mieszko,is NEVER called "Ksiądz"
None of the historical books names polish rulers "Ksiądz", none of the historians says "let's talk about KSIĄDZ Bolesław". It's just not used that way by ANY Pole.
And PLEASE - don't quote wikipedia, it 's the worst source you can quote.

Duchy Wielka Polszcza and Malo Polszcza looks weird. Even if Polszcza is some grandpa form of Polska I'm preety sure these duchies weren't called like that. Just Wielkopolska and Małopolska

"Żupan" as "Count". I see it's some old word, yet it's so rarely used that I've never seen it used this way before. "Wojewoda" would be more accurate "Count".County is Województwo

King is Król. "ó" is important, you read it as "u", not "o". Same with Królowa and Królewicz

quick btw mate:

"Around the time CKIII starts in Poland, relevant chronicles and documents were primarily using Latin since it was the language of the Church, so the tiles were often only indirectly translated."

It was the de facto and de iure language of the state. That's why official titles come in Latin first - and some, like 'Regina' - 'The Queen', never even had any polish equivalent.

'-owa' suffix means, being linguistically correct, nothing more the a wife of the man with the male title in question. So 'Królowa' is, fundamentally, only a 'Queen Consort', and never a 'Queen'. You should never use a title of said 'Królowa' for the late Queen Elizabeth II .

@Synth Man
Just no, man. Get your facts straight. IIRC it was debated here already at least once.

Also, as you've said "Modern and semi-modern (after 14th/15th century pretty) sources [...]" - It's about the language from before the modern era, so that should put EOT on it.

We are talking about old Polish, which was not written down very often. Around the time CKIII starts in Poland, relevant chronicles and documents were primarily using Latin since it was the language of the Church, so the tiles were often only indirectly translated. As i mentioned, in this sense, even modern "Sędzia" from latin "Iudex" would be more appropriate in the context of the game, if you want to be specific. After all, this is how the first ruler of Poland referred to himself in "Dagome Iudex".

In any case, "Ksiądz" wasn't pronounced like it is now, and wasn't written down in the same manner, since the Polish alphabet was different. Saying that I am instantly wrong by not agreeing with it being the only correct title is disingenuous, as would be me saying that I have the only correct interpretation. Early medieval history, especially in Eastern Europe, is very blurry and there are always multiple interpretations.

Whatever was actually used at the time, "Książę" is now the more accepted term. Modern and semi-modern (after 14th/15th century pretty) sources refer to the medieval rulers of Poland around the time as "Książę" singular and "Książęta" plural; not "Ksiądz" and "Księża". It is even mentioned in the extract from Wikipedia you posted ("dziś w tym znaczeniu występuje polska forma książę").

Summing up, neither version is likely to be 100% correct, since languages are complex. I was only arguing that it would be easier to understand these titles within the context of the game and what they represent if the title "Książę" was used rather than "Ksiądz", since it is a more modern term and carries a lot more familiar associations for the vast majority of people playing and who speak Polish.

Again, I am not even asking for it to be changed anymore; I was just a little unsettled by being called flat out "wrong" in an area which has so many shades of grey.

@Synthetic Man - "Samo słowo „ksiądz” wywodzi się ze słowiańskiego kniędz (*kъnędzь) i pierwotnie termin ten oznaczał władcę, naczelnika plemiennego"
"We wczesnym średniowieczu zaczęto tak określać ludzi możnych i wpływowych. Od XIII wieku słowem tym nazywano też niekoronowanych władców jako odpowiednik łacińskiego słowa dux lub princeps, np. wielki ksiądz litewski (dziś w tym znaczeniu występuje polska forma książę, która pierwotnie znaczyła młodego władcę – książę od ksiądz (władca) jak koźlę od kozieł czy chłopię od chłop)."
Source: Wikipedia on term "ksiądz"

If you are telling me that "Ksiądz" doesn't mean "Priest", then I don't know what to say to you. I guess that you speak better Polish than Polish people.

If you mean the proto slavic word "Kniędz" or even "kъnędzь", meaning "Tribal Leader" or "Wódz", then maybe, but it is not "Ksiądz".

If you look at the first ruler of what is generally recognised as the precursor state of Poland, Mieszko, his title was "Książę", "Mieszko, Książę Polski". It was an important distinction that he was never crowned "Król" and remained a "Książę". If you want to be very pedantic, then the better word would even be "Judge" or "Sędzia", as per the document "Dagome Iudex" which he sent to the Pope, but not "Ksiądz".

The most famous series of the portraits of Polish monarchs is called "Poczet królów i książąt polskich" by Jan Matejko (created after the fact obviously). "Ksiądz" has pretty much never been used in the context of a feudal ruler, and definitely not in this spelling.

If you are interested in having a good faith debate then I would happily have a look at your sources if you want to educate me, or at the reasons why you think the titles in the mod are more appropriate. But just saying that I am wrong without explaining anything is not very productive and doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that you think you know better just because.

Ultimately, I already changed them in my game, and I just wanted to help if people behind this mod didn't have a native Polish speaker with them. But I am not going to make anybody do or change anything, everyone is free to enjoy the game in their own way.

@Synthetic Man
No, actually not a single thing you wrote is correct. Check your facts before trying to instruct anyone.

Just a heads up, Duke and and Grand Duke titles are wrong for the Polish language/ culture; "Ksiądz" means "Priest", not "Duke". We would use the term "Książę", or even "Diuk", from the Latin "Dux" when referring to foreign dignitaries of the rank. "Księżna" and/or "Diuczessa" for female versions.

You have already included "Książę" as meaning "Prince" in the pack, which is a possible translation, but that meaning is not as appropriate for the way it is used in the game. A better option would be "Królewicz" for male and "Królewna" for female. Meaning sons and daughters of the ruling King, or more appropriately his or her heirs.

Grand Duke was more commonly translated to "Arcyksiążę" for male and "Arcyksiężna" for female in the context it is usually used in the game, though "Wielki Książę" has been used in limited circumstances (the only example I know is "Wielki Książę Litewski" meaning grand prince of Lithuania)

And lastly, "Król" and "Królowa" are missing their accents for the localisations of King and Queen.

I would be happy to help with any other clarifications regarding Polish if you decide to pick up these suggestions, feel free to DM me :)

Thank you for the amazing work.

playing as roman, republic vassal always have voget (count) and landvoget (duke) as their title instead of magister and praefectus. Weirdly enough, king level vassal still get the consul title.

I do use MB+, so good idea cuomo860!

@TheGib770 Minor Error Log tip. Having localization files in the localization/english directory causes the game to write errors to the log effective 1.9. These errors can be mitigated by moving them to a directory localization/replace/english.

This also forces an overwrite if another mod has it in the replace folder. So @Bodongs may be seeing that MB+ (whose localization needs to be updated) overwriting some of the localization in here.

Champions all have names like "knight_no_default_tooltip" and the similar.

Either

Should this mod be above or below More Cultural Names?

Probably

is it current save compatible?

What happened to this ;-;
Did they change the name and made another mod

They are not only merging the two, they are adding a lot more content and increase compatibility with other mods.

it's not abandoned, it appears they are making a new mod that will merge this one and community name packs, they will name it Name Packs Expanded, just be patient, if you go on discord it shows that they are working hard on it.

such a shame this is abandoned

any archduke titles?

The mod is free to take and re-upload if you want separate changes

Is it possible to just get the title name changes without the changes to culture/religion name? Something like Orthodoxos makes no sense if you're not playing as a Greek-speaking character.

Please update and fix some issues of this great mod :)

oh

Because ctp doesn't do anything with land title names just nobility titles

why

No

does this make kiev have the name kiev

Really hoping someone makes a compatibility mod between this and Governments +. Literally just copy/paste CTP's title names, and designate them as a applying to G+'s governments. Just a real immersion-breaker to have the whole steppe named 'cheiftans' and Afghani city-states leaders called 'duke' when their neighbors have their historical titular names. Whoever manages to do this would be an absolute champ!