I published a minor update (v1.52): I reduced significantly the maintenance costs of manually placed industries. Before it was not an issue, but since a while (I do not know since when) the manually placed industries appeared as player owned. With the huge building costs of industries in Senseless, the maintenance costs were also huge. That has been fixed.

Hello Jimbo, the coaches of Gr1m are not prepared to haul cargo, only passengers. So I can't make them transport MAIL without overwriting Gr1m's mod, which goes beyond the goal of this project. Maybe you can convince Gr1m to add MAIL to the break and mail cars?

@MK, the benefits of the Spring 2022 update will only become available with the use of this update (for the moment as the beta patch), and with an updated Senseless mod. Since the Spring 2022 update is not yet officially released, I did not yet update my mod to support this new features. We'll have to wait until may. ;)

Thanks, I'll look into it

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2580991756
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2222382696
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1939656506
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1939655980
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2222390530
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2172366451
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2222383312

Question - Do you have to progress through each age to unlock the new industries? - because if i start in 2000 it still only gives me the same industries as in 1850 and none of the new ones.

Hello Jimbo, could you give me the link to this mod? Then I could look into it, and see if it's possible.

@yeol is it possible to allow mail to be transported by Gr1m's generic coache packs ie the full brakes?
As there is nothing available before mk1 tpo's.

youre the man, thanks :)

Hello jay_, no problem for the suggestion about meat. I'll make it so that all vehicles that can transport fish, can transport meat. That way, your cooling waggons will also be used for meat.

Really looking forward to playing the new version, glad you back!

Just a minor "wish": Is it possible to let cars, which can carry food, carry meat too? Would make sense since meat is a type of food.

I came up with this because i am currently making cooling waggons and they only carry fish and food, but no meat unfortunately. (Due to the script)

Thanks for your timely information.
Personly, all I want is more complicate and realistic product chains, as well as interesting features related with the upcoming update as you mentioned before.
Maybe an easy start and a tough later period will be a good experience! Looking forward to your final work.

In the upcoming Senseless V2, I've made it so that town buildings demand coal until 1920, and then they demand fuel. This makes coal and fuel much more present, and I'm eager to test-play it.

The advantages are that one can start immediately to deliver cargo to towns (coal or fuel), without having to complete the entire industrial or commercial goods production chain. This way, mail and waste are also starting much sooner.

The disadvantage may be that it's more easy to start, less of a challenge, and maybe too OP to make money soon. But again, I've to test-play it to see how it behaves.

Thanks for the suggestion! And it is of course always possible to install 3th party mods of for instance Power Plants that require coal or fuel. ;)

Senseless V2 is still under development and internal evaluation.

Sorry for my poor English, which makes you difficult to understand. But that's exactly what I suggest. Modern industries are heavily relied on some fundamental raw materials. In addition, I'm glad to hear that more complicate product chains will be available.
The current beta version is buggy. I really appreciate your great job.

Thank you for the suggestions, ccjj. Probabably you have a point concerning the little quantity of oil and coal based products. I'll do something with this.
The dynamic appearance is random. So if you are waiting for a particular plant to appear, it could take a while. But unfortunately I can't play the beta patch thoroughly, because of the constant crashes. I hope this will be fixed the coming weeks. So, I do not have a good sight upon the balance in gameplay with these new features.

What an awesome project!
A small suggestion: in later game, is it possible to base more products on crude, coal, etc., in this way, we can transport much crude and coal from a huge raw material base, which makes the game more realistic.
And a question: is the dynamic appearance of industries sufficient to build the entire industrial network, or only partial of it?

Great job! Continue plz! :)

Version 2.00 of Senseless Industries is almost ready. The prototype is ready, but I need to test-play it, en fix the last errors. What is to be expected?

- Progression of town cargo types. With expanding cities, and time progression through the era more cargo type will be available in towns.
- Smaller villages with no, or just one cargo type will also appear to make the early start more challenging (and epic)
- More modern cargo types with different new modern technologies to make the late game more varied.
- Compatible with pre- and post Spring 2022 update gameplay
- the largest and most productive industries might have a very small town developed around it. This makes progress more organic and dynamic in time.

This version will be proposed as an alternative, because ongoing games would be severely affected. Many production chains have been altered, especially at the later era. The early era is almost identical, but more dynamic and varied.

yo cement!??!?! nice!!!

Nice update. Especially like the compatibility with krisz04's cement wagons!
Thanks.

very nice

I've published version 1.51.

A) The textile mill has been split into 2 eras. Until 1900 the older version works with Leather, Wool and Fiber (Cotton or Flax). After 1900 the modern version works with Leather, Wool and Synthetic Fiber (Nylon). Textile related icons have received a minor facelift. It bothered me before that the textile mill showed "synthetic fibers" from 1850, but it was not yet possible to make it.

B) A Cement plant has been added. I was unhappy with the reduced role of stone, sand and clay. Cement is made with Limestone (before it was delivered directly to the Concrete plant) and Clay. At the Concrete plant Cement, Sand and Stone (gravel) is needed to make Concrete. This way stone and clay have a role beyond 1900, and sand has more impact (before only used for Glass).

... continued

Concrete and Sand icons and cargo models have received a minor facelift.

I made Senseless compatible with the cement waggons of the DDC mod of krisz04, so you can use his cement rail cars. His cement plant is not compatible though!

ah, alright. that makes some sense
totally didnt just setup really expensive and time wasting infranstructure for mail and waste

@Yeol:

your 3rd Point wit hthe small towns sounds very nice
to your 2nd Point: I hope that issue is a Beta-Bug and try to write in some forums about that - or maybe someone else has done that already

looking forward to the new Update and thank you VERY much for being here

@ACanadianRailfan, mail and garbage have no digestive system, so seem rather normal. But, mail and waste are secondary products. You will need to deliver commercial or industrial goods to towns first, for mail and waste to be generated. I hope this helps. Success!

@Yolosaurus Rex, thanks! Have fun!

@Yeol Woohoo! Awesome!

i need help
mail and garbage aint doin shit, the year is 1930 in my save game

I've published a new update (1.50), in preparation of the upcoming Spring 2022 patch. What has changed?

1. Hotels, Palace, Circus, DIY-center and car dealers have been removed because they did not respond to the expectation. I failed to implement the entire idea with these elements, so they were rather meh.
2. Senseless has been prepared for the Spring 2022 patch. It is compatible. The appearing and disappearing of industries is a major bonus (for era progression). But the base game still has issues with the 6 cargos per town mechanics. It does not work with custom cargo types. So the basic Commercial and Industrial goods concept stays (as long the bug is present in the base game)
3. NEW: small towns MAY appear near industry plants with very high production. This will probably happen during mid-game. I hope you enjoy this new concept.
4. A few graphics improvements (mainly retouched a few icons)

Have fun!

(I also don't know much about modding in TF2, so I don't know if it's something where a patch mod or something could add compatibility between the two, or if it's something FI would need to change, or something that would get added to your mod)

When placing a custom industry, I cannot select any of the new goods that you added :P. I vaguely remember that all it needed was some text changes in that mods' files? It's been a looooooong time since I last played >_<. I can go dig around & see if you would like me to.

I never used the freestyle industries mod, so in what way does it not integrate, and what would you suggest for it to integrate?

Oh! Is there a patch or something that integrates this with the Freestyle Industries mod?

Groovy. Thank you for all your work! I'm loving this mod ^_^

I've played around with the new 6-cargo feature for towns. But the game mechanism is not behaving as expected. The appearance of more cargo types works only with the default cargo types of the game. When I change the cargo types to my Industrial and Commercial goods, the feature stops working. No extra cargo type appear; not randomly, not in a specific order. Nothing happens.

The disappearance and appearance of new Industries over time works well and is a fun extra gameplay element.

So for the moment I'll make the mod compatible with the upcoming patch, and clean it up from some underwhelming elements (Palace, Car dealers,...). But I can't integrate the extra cargo type with growing towns, because the mechanism does not work for custom cargo types.

When industries have been inactive for 10 years or more, there is a chance they will shutdown. Once they decide to shutdown, a timer of 366 days informs you that you still can use and activate that plant and stop de countdown, by delivering or retracting cargo from that industrial plant. If you do not, and they shutdown, they disappear completely from the map.

When do industries become out-dated? Do they disappear from the map when that happens?

I can confirm that. I played around with the oter industry mods and even there are larger production chains. But for some reason it makes the game less fun than this concept.

@Colibru, that is exactly what I'm working on. I hope to have a first prototype with the principles ready for me to test play today. I think indeed this is the way to go.

Yeol said: "I've also done test whereby there are no commercial centers or industry parks, but town buildings are directly fed by a collection of cargo types. That went not great, and it did not add to the fun of playing."

I still think if the first Co-Centers and I-Parks will produce Era1 packs and the next one produces Era 2 packs - guess it won't be perfect but i think it would be the easiest way and it would keep the heart of the mod mostly in tact

@Yeol

I have taken the Whiskey distellery from chpter 3. I have not looked deeper into it but it is by default only placeble by hand.

I have not played long enough too be sure it never game in the game by itself. But when the map is generated it is not there.

The manual placement of industry plants for a cost remains. It's nice for players who like to keep control and build a network to their taste. But as you mentioned, some buildings should best not auto-place during the game (hotels, customs, headquarters,...). I still need to find out how the auto-placement works, and what parameters are available to influence "what" and "when".

When you tried that concept of town industries you know the best what works and don't works very well. I was the whole day trying different concepts and i see how difficult it is too balance the game.

Is the customs house still placeble by the player in the new version or is it also a building that will be placed randomly by the game?

Mail and waste are products produced by the town. Mail works pretty well, (but tends to snowball too much). Waste works but the intensive is not great. No real rewards.

I tried to use town industries more actively (e.g. car dealer), but town buildings are not stable, and their locations hops all over the map. Very annoying when out of radius of cargo stations... again.

I've also done test whereby there are no commercial centers or industry parks, but town buildings are directly fed by a collection of cargo types. That went not great, and it did not add to the fun of playing.

So, I will fall back to the core concept, and dispose of most elements that do not fit well into that concept. Personally the custom house could amuse me, placed at map edges as if these were border crossings.

the customs where a great thing in my opinion - but they could attract more people -
always made me feel like the world is bigger and you can "send trains to other countrys"

Maybe it is an idea too involve the town insustries in the production chains. I'am also experimenting with the industries at the moment and it would be fun when town industries also make products. especcially for the fact that towns are dynamic in size.

It is a good idea too remove the palace and other stuff. It never works well. Even the customs office is a bit annoying. But that is only my opinion. It is still your project offcourse.

I'am glad too hear that you like the improvments of the beta. Your mod is awesome. And now i'am trying also scripting a mod i realize how difficult it is too design a balanced cargo chain.

@Jimbo, I'm keeping the fish/cannery but I'm thinking about changing some AND/OR logic in industry input so the food chain will become less huge to get started.

I'll take a look at the fishing mod, and curious when it's auto-placed, it still is at water borders. Thanks for the suggestion.

Are you keeping the cannery? There is a newish mod
Https:/www.transportfever.net/filebase/index.php?entry/6449-fischerhafen-fishing-harbour/
I've yet to use, but ties in with this, it's a small fishing harbour & fish (in the water) industry https://www.transportfever.net/filebase/index.php?entry/6462-fischgrund-fishing-ground/

I've test-played the new beta with all settings on medium, and the appearance/disappearance of industries is a big improvement. It dynamises the game much more. It was something It tried to do with this mod two years ago, but failed. I'm glad the developers finally decided to include this feature.

I'm developing a plan with a few modification of this mod so eras are better represented by the increasing demand of cargo by larger cities. And the badly implemented elements of this mod will be removed (palace, car dealer, ...), but nothing is final.

If you have suggestions, I'm all ears.