agree

@GothCatSinner At the very least, the first bee that comes out when Wuzzy attacks is the Moonguard. It never wasn't when I've used Wuzzy. A skill tree to increase the spawn chance or increase the amount released per chance, though... that could be pretty cool.

Would be cool to add an skill for the skill tree, that makes all the bees come out, or atleast, assuring the first hit will spawn a bee with a 100% chance, prioritizing tank bees.

No complaints on the art from me either. It's a lot more immersive than a lot of the anime character and item mods on the workshop anyway.

Wdym, the art is some of the best in the base game. Wuzzy fits in better with other DST character designs than vast majority of mods. I don't see the issue.

do it or pay it yourself then

this mod needs art worker。。。

@GothCatSinner not yet

Hello, theres anyway to manage to get all bees out without attacking first?

check the wiki

how tokens work?

@Ninjacya321 ok i can do that, it doesnt sound too broken.

Hello Renetta, I wonder if it's feasible to make it possible to summon your bees instantly/with the first hit? Just a QoL I think of when I was slowly summoning bees while hitting a tenticle spike. Even if just a potential Melissa Insight to summon all bees at once with like a left click at the cost of durability, this could allow for swarming to occur faster and a nice QoL.

Check change notes and wiki

What is that soldier/mimic token?

What was updated?

i added a new QoL update. It may break somewhere, everyone pls help report any bugs. And it may be be too OP, idk yet, have fun.

Yes

If I want to take my army to fight agains bosses, i'll need to build a portal to each boss lair?

This mod is fantastic! Thank you so much for your work!!

@sophiaz it's in I ADDED A SKILL TREE. PLEASE CHECK HERE it leads to wuzzys wiki. but you'll need to kill bee queen 3 time non-retroactively meaning you need to kill her three time as wuzzy.

rennetta ive been quite a long term fan and i was really excited to see the new alchemist hive may i get a clue as to how to get its blueprint please and thank you

Renetta, I just today fought the Great Depths Worm and noticed how (it was in my base, literally hit a Metapis Barracks and tail was beside the Hive) and I don't think the Hive had spawned any Bees. Either that or the Depths worm one shot everything and ate them. If I ever meet this thing again I'll check this out again. Honestly they probably were just eaten and I'm just being a noob here.

Edited so reposting:

@Renetta yeah, I agree in just stat increases would be bad, so guess the upgraded hive with honeycombs isn't the most unique idea.

Personally as a guy on Shepard, it feels amazing. Just defeated the shadow pieces with a t3 bishop, the ancient guardian and the Nightmare Werepig. it is so fun playing him and with the ability for them to attack Shadows, super nice too. I wish you luck in thinking on the insights. Maybe to make it funny for the T1 Melissa Insight, it could scale off of Hive level like 1.1x - hive lvl 0, 1.5 - hive lvl 1, 2.0x - hive lvl 2, 2.5/3.0x - hive lvl 3, to help it scale.

Maybe a Shepard Wuzzy could have an Insight to gain more pollen than usual and collect in winter on like a 3 day cooldown? Or his worker bees are more effective and he gains more attack bees per Metapis Barracks at 2.5 per, so he is more swarmy.

While to compensate Tyrant would maybe be able to send out all bees at once in storage so he can have them out ready, as if he were forcing them all out at once? Maybe this could be a Shepard trait and something else for the Tyrant like maybe the worker bees gathering more pollen than usual as they are being forced to. Just thoughts. Great mod still Renetta!

Well about the discussions abt Tyrant vs Shepherd. I designed the Tyrant to be suitable for players who prefer to mainly control a strong character to do everything. The bees then are just secondary, supporting Wuzzy.

Shepherd as Rabbisk mentioned, is not weak. This skill tree further emphasizes the summoner build. It needs more setup, more resources, and is more suitable for players who like using minions.

I'm not even intended to make one better than the other. But i do want to keep the 2 modes staying true to its theme.

They are just 2 different play styles, which i want to implement both in the skill tree. I want the skill tree to be able to vastly change the gameplay. Not just "increase damage" like Wolfgang.

And actually I intended to provide enough ingredients to build 1 Mother Hive from the start but maybe i updated the recipe and forgot to update starting inventory items. Will update later.

@ ฬเɭչ sting trap is just a trap that slows enemy stepping on it and deals damage periodically. I am thinking about merging it into a new item / structure. For Melissa 2, its like a lazy explorer but you need to click close to a Metapis, it will swap places with you. Mostly its an escape tool, to get out of damage range quickly, like Fuel Weaver bone cage.

@ฬเɭչ can you check when you go to caves, the max stats actually are increased? The stats save and load mechanics in the game is a bit funny. But as long as max stats are actually increased its not too bad as you can heal back lol. But if the max stats dont increase its an issue.

Wow a lot of good discussions here. No worries the skill tree is still a work in progress. Feel free to comment your thoughts and i appreciate that.

Also, anyone else having the "Tyrant stats go back to normal upon entering caves" issue? @ ฬเɭչ when you enter the caves and open skill tree UI, do you see the Tyrant skills activated?

Hmm wait, today I learned. Shadow Metapis can revive dead Metapis into shadowlings? Damn never really noticed cause so far the bosses I've fought as Shepard, haven't looked too close at my swarm when they're already so tanky, 1k moonguard with Melissa's bonus.

@ฬเɭչ Oh I'm aware of that, I might have worded it weirdly. I had stated since the dmg redirection it was harder for me to think of other ways a Tyrant would act (as I said, uncreative), then I thought of him being able to do something similar to wortex's soul bomb, by commanding a Metapis to just kill themself to blow up, like any metapis. Probably would be hell to code it also applying effects that the metapis would trigger, i.e. poison if mutant exploded, shadowlings if shadow, freeze if guard, soldier for honey slow and ranger for big electric dmg I guess.

Man reading this out I think to myself how much I keep on just trying to take from the bee's base insight effects which are extremely awesome and well designed imo. Thinking again Renetta did a good job in designing them.

@Ninjacya321 Both of your ideas for Tyrant are already in the mod. Tyrant II provides Wuzzy with a chance to have damage dealt to him, instead be redirected to other Metapises. As for Metapis exploding on death, Metapis Shadow provides a chance to spawn a shadowling on a Metapis death, which then have a chance of their own to explode into spikes upon death.

I do have an idea but it's a bit out there. Maybe with a Tyrant 3/4 or whatever tier is decided. You can give Honeycombs to the Hive to permanently increase Wuzzy's stats by like 5% per, a Tyrant slaying Queens and destroying other hives to make himself stronger. Including Dmg so 1.55% at Hive level 3 with 1 Honeycomb submitted. (Could do the same thing for Shepard but to buff Metapis instead maybe, but like Royal Jelly instead with a smaller%, like 2.5% due to how many you get from the Queen and the original Shepard 1 stat buff. Or could just be done with Honeycombs too).

@ฬเɭչ Honestly, from what I see the role is to be more focused on Wuzzy and less the Metapis. You might be right with what you're leading towards. Just getting damage isn't going to fit. He can reflect damage taken to his bees. Okay had a funny idea, being able to target a Metapis and cause it to die and explode dealing dmg, leaving a honey trail like the Bee Queen to slow enemies and healing Wuzzy by like 50, with a 15/25 sanity loss as compensation maybe?

Thinking of ways other than just amping his personal damage as Tyrant is hard - for me anyway, not the most creative fellow - so Renetta's got a lot on their plate if they do intend on doing it.

@Ninjacya321 I mean, an interesting idea for certain. If Tyrant's priority is damage, then spice it up with more damage I suppose.

@ฬเɭչ Oh no I hadn't meant being unable to summon the different Metapises, I was referring to the Insight buffs. You are right though, why play Wuzzy if unable to at least boost them via the insights. Maybe then, one giving a weaker version of the buff to both you and the bees? I'm unsure, man Renetta's got a challenge trying to think of an additional way to buff Tyrant, I'll have to do a Tyrant world to see how it actually feels.

Abagail has a dmg amp on her attacks, so maybe for each different type of bee attacking the target Wuzzy could gain an additional % of dmg maybe? That way his identity of bees and a Tyrant while also taking advantage of bully/group tactics could come into affect? This would be an Insight for Tyrant only, maybe like Tyrant 3? Just an idea.

@Rabbisk I don't think Wuzzy or even base game characters for that matter, should be balanced around multiplayer. A character should be sustainable on their own. My perspectives come from playing him solo.

@ฬเɭչ I do see your point—if nightmare creatures are easy, then yeah, why not let the bees take them out. Tbh, you got me there.

But to answer your question about multiplayer—when you're playing with others, they can help you deal with the shadow creatures, and you can just land the final hit to get the sanity.

As for Wuzzy being slower to get online, that really depends on your world gen and whether you’ve got friends to help out. Sometimes you spawn in a world with only like 7 hives, and other times you get that massive bee biome. I’m gonna start a fresh world and play long-term to see how it feels.

Eh, personally I am against having Tyrant be unable to spec into Metaphises. Since it's pretty much Wuzzy's identity. If there are no Metaphises, why not just play Wolfgang or Wanda. Also Melissa skill tree is generally not useful, especially for what's Tyrant doing. I did use Melissa for a bit, cuz its cheap, but the moment I got Hambat, I instantly threw it away as Hambat dealt more damage. And with Tyrant, you gotta make good use of that x1.5.

I also don't think buffing Soldiers is a good investment. As they'll be useless come late game, and the main premise of Shepard is late game. Same with chance to spawn additional soldier. You attack so frequently it's easy enough to get all 4-6 out.

I will say Shepard is fun! Maybe if you want to buff Tyrant later on, would it be possible to implement an additional insight tree where he gains small benefits depending on the bee such as Moonguard Tyrant where he gains dmg reduction and for a tier 2 have it be like every 4 can freeze enemies via a percent like the Moonguard's abilities, poison on attack which stacks, summoning shadowlings to tank more via Tyrant 2, but to restrict it. Make it impossible for Wuzzy the tyrant to spec into the bees. So instead of even buffing his bees, he rather steals some of their potential traits. I'd say the % of the buff should also definitely scale off of Hive level so as to incentive a Bee Queen rush. Just a random thought I had while carrying a marble statue head.

Unsure on whether or not then it'd be fair to allow all 5 insights to be taken by Wuzzy for the tyrant/shepard. It would be cool though to have it so. Then potentially instead of Melissa's skill tree (which would be locked to Tyrant), a skill tree locked to Shepard which buffs the soldiers as at the beginning pre-unlocking other bees, it would be helpful. Their mimic ability has no impact til the Moonguards/second bee form is unlocked, so his own weakening of his damage can be compensated via this tree. Could even be something simple like "Have a chance to spawn an additional Soldier bee from the pool when Wuzzy attacks". Or we could just change it to Metapis bee. Probably would be better.

@Rabbisk He is stronger later, but my issue was always the coefficiency of time & resources spent, to power. He starts out weak early game, so he's not an early game character. But by the time you set up his hives, other characters would've set up their armadas sooner and stronger.

Tyrant however shifts the dynamic. Making him a very strong early game option with further potential towards late game; if he chooses to spend into improving his hive. I am not sure if it's still true considering you only get x1.5 after tier 3 Mother Hive. But at least it used to be that way. It didn't matter if some other characters performed better than him late, since he performed better than them early. It created a healthy niche for him. Shepard just further sunk into his issues.

Is that supposed to refer to multiplayer I presume? As a skill issued person, probably adhering closer to a lesser skilled player, I really like the ability to attacking Shadow Creatures as I'm shocked by the capabilities of your kiting skills. At most I can juggle 1-2 and even then I take hits. Thanks to the update, it gives me the option to fight in the ruins vs nightmare creature lights.

@Rabbisk Saying "you can kill bosses faster than any other character" is a BIG take, especially for somebody like me who mains Wurt.

As for Shadow Creatures, if you're saying that "they aren't that hard", then what's the issue with implementing Shepard QoL? I am personally not bothered by Shadow Creatures, at one point I had defeated 12 shadow creatures all at the same time, with nothing but an axe and a dimly light campfire. If they had ankles, I'd have enough of them stolen over my carrier to just straight up build Odd Skeleton out of them. But they are still an annoyance you have to occasionally deal with as per sanity management. Tyrant allows me to 3-4 tap them with Glass Cutters and move on with my day. Meanwhile you need 8-10 to get rid of them with Shepard. This just kills Shepard for me, even for somebody who's good at kiting Shadow Creatures. And hence the QoL was implemented.

Also idk what you mean by other players. Please elaborate. Part 1.

I’m not saying the Shepard isn’t weak—it definitely is early game. But once your hive is set up, you're just a little weaker, and so much stronger in the late game. I’ve got over 1000 hours on this character and have played a ton since the new skill tree dropped and I will say they are a strong character but you don't have the freedom like others

The Tyrant is strong early, but once you beat Bee Queen and clear the ruins, that 50% bonus damage doesn’t really compare to the 25% stat buff you get from bees. Letting the bees attack nightmare creatures I feel make things too easy

Sorry if I came off hard I don't mean too.

@ฬเɭչ Shepard wuzzy is not weak—if you prep right, you can kill most bosses faster than any other character in the game, even without the Shepard. There are also ways to get around his weak damage multiplier.

First, glass cutters. You deal around 40.8 damage with them. Yeah, it's still on the lower side, but nightmare creatures aren’t that hard. I’ve got a solo world with Wuzzy (Shepard perk on) Uncompromising Mode with hard nightmare creatures on, and I honestly don’t struggle much with them. (also sanity is easy to manage with honey food)

Second, other players—that one’s pretty self-explanatory. There’s also planar damage, but I’m not gonna get into that.

@Rabbisk Metaphises attacking Shadow Creatures, is mainly suppose to be a buff towards Shepard skill tree, due to Tyrant already being strictly superior to it. With one of the major downsides being that the best way to deal with Sanity is to fight Shadow creatures. Which with x0.6 damage essentially left him handicapped. Shepard's idea is that bees take over the fight for Wuzzy, yet they can't even help him against the most common enemy in the game.

Wuzzy is already balanced as is, if not being weak before the release of the Tyrant skill tree.

this is a continuation from the last post it got too long TwT

Also, if bees can attack shadow creatures, it kind of takes away from Wuzzy's main downside—or even nullifies it. He’s great in regular combat, but when it comes to nightmare creatures, I feel he's supposed to be worse than average. Given the bees' strength and all of Wuzzy’s other advantages, I think that weakness is valid and helps balance him.

Plus, keeping that downside opens up some fun synergy potential with other survivors who are good at dealing with nightmare creatures—like Wanda, Willow, or Wolfgang.

Heya, I see a lot of people leaving big walls of text I don't mean to add more to that but I love Wuzzy and want to leave my feed back so sorry in advance.

The idea of minions attacking nightmare creatures feels a bit off. I'm not sure what you have planned for the affinity system, but it could be interesting if you tied characters like the Shepard (Lunar) and the Tyrant (Shadow) to those affinities.

For example, on the Lunar side, the Moon Guards and Assassins could more closely resemble Grazers or Brightshade Gestalts. That way, it would make more sense for them to target shadow creatures—if you are planning to go in that direction. That said, it would be a lot of work.