Everything you wanted to know about hoplites but were afraid to phalanx.

Terrible pun aside, this guide contains information on the proper use of hoplites in rome 2. Efficiency/effectiveness of formations will be the major focus. This guide also examines hoplites' effectiveness against other types of infantry.

Introduction to the Guide and to Hoplites

So, here's the deal: I got bored one evening and decided to test out the effectiveness of hoplites. Having played Rome 1, a game in which the hoplites garnered respect, I was disappointed with hoplites in Rome 2 - at first finding them weak, lackluster, and good for nothing except being the anvil in the hammer and anvil. Regardless of their effectiveness, you cannot get away from hoplites in Rome 2, so I wanted to find out once and for all how good/bad they are (which I'm going to share with you - aren't you lucky?). Also, I'm a scientist, so I'm going to post this in a scientific fashion.

The community seems to have a similar conception of hoplites. That is, that hoplites are very effective as a holding force, but not much else. However, I had heard it recommended to use hoplites with no formation attack, to use them more aggressively, and to pop hoplite wall once you've engage some other troops. For the most part I did this, without really checking to see if it was better. This guide tries to assess this under semi-controlled circumstances.

Regardless of how you pronounce it (Hoplight vs Hoplitae), the history of hoplites is cool. So, some history (pulled straight from wikipedia): Hoplites were citizen-soldiers of Ancient Greek city-states who were primarily armed with spears and shields. Their main tactic was the phalanx formation. The hoplites were primarily free citizens—propertied farmers and artisans—who were able to afford the bronze armor suit and weapons (estimated at a third to a half of its able-bodied adult male population). Hoplites generally received basic military training. The word hoplite derives from hoplon, the type of shield used by the soldiers, although, as a word, hopla could also denote the soldiers' weapons or even their full armament. In later usage, the term hoplite is used to denote any armored infantry such as the Swiss mercenaries during the Burgundian Wars (1474–1477).

Second, the method: All findings from these tests were done in the vanilla game (no mods) on the standard custom battle map (during the day and dry). Whenever possible, during these tests, I would remove any effect of the generals ASAP (usually by killing the AIs and moving mine out of range) to make it a "pure" 1 on 1 experience. That being said, most of these tests were not repeated, so the findings remain anecdotal. All tests were conducted on "hard" battle difficulty so these results may not generalize to other difficulties, but I believe the information about the most effecient formation will still be useful.

The Tests

I first tested the efficacy of the different combinations of the formations for hoplites. I chose Athens and pitted myself against Rome. Each army contained a cavalry general and 1 unit of comparable price. For Athens: 1 unit of standard hoplites (650g), for Rome: 1 unit of Legionaries (660g). Here were the results of this match up:

1) With absolutely no formations, the hoplites were able to kill 44 legionaires before they were routed.
2) With just "Formation Attack" activated, the hoplites were able to kill 42 legionaries before they were routed.
3) With just "Hoplite Wall" activated, the hoplites were able to kill 84 legionaries before they were routed.
4) With both "Formation Attack" and "Hoplite Wall" activated, the hoplites were able to kill 71 of the legionaries before they were routed.

**It is important to note that whenever hoplite wall was activated, the hoplites were able to hold the legionaries for a noticeably longer amount of time then when it wasn't.**

Surprised at how well the hoplites did with just "Hoplite Wall" activated, I went into future tests assuming that this was the most effective stance for them to be in. Also it should be noted that this test was replicated several times (5+).

The next test was against barbarian swords of poorer quality. I, again, pitted Athens against Tylis. For Athens, 1 unit of picked Hoplites (1200g) and 1 unit of standard Hoplites (650g); For Tylis: 1 unit of Oathsworn (1340g) and 1 unit of Celtic Warriors (340g). The results were as follows:

1) The hoplites were able to shatter the celtic warriors taking, roughly, 50% losses with just "Hoplite Wall" activated.
2) Most shocking to me was the Picked Hoplites were able to route the Oathsworn, albeit with extremely heavy losses (again, with just "Hoplite Wall" activated).

Next, I tried the Athenian Hoplites against Tylis' Gallo-Thracian Warriors (650g), Averni's Naked Warriors (580g), and Rome's Hastati (350g).

1) The Gallo-Thracian Warriors beat the Hoplites quite easily, with the Hoplites killing 65 of the G-T's before routing.
2) The Hoplites Managed to shatter the Naked Warriors albiet with heavy losses.
3) The Hoplites managed to route the Hastati while taking, roughly, 50%, losses.

Next, I tried a different "brand" of Hoplite - the Ardiaei - whom were pitted against Rome. For the Ardiaei, 1 unit of Illyrian Hoplites (640g); For Rome, 1 unit of Legionaries (660g). The results:

1) The Illyrian Hoplites only managed to kill 64 Legionaries before they routed.

**This finding actually surprised me quite a bit. I expected the Illyrians to match, if not surpass, the standard hoplite due to their extreme armor. However, it appears that their slightly less melee attack and melee defence really hurt them here. This solidified, for me, at least, that melee defence is a superior stat for hoplites**

For tests against other spear infantry, I pitted our harried hoplites against: Pikemen (600g), Chosen Spear Band (690), other hoplites, and Armored Spears (580g).

1) The test against Pikemen was inconclusive. The hoplites were able to route the pikemen with extrememly heavy losses, but the route may have been due to a dead general.
2) The Hoplites were able to route the Chosen Spear Band with medium to heavy losses.
3) The Hoplites (only using Hoplite wall) were able to defeat the other Hoplites handily - losing less than half their men.
4) The Hoplites were able to route the Armored Spears taking medium (less than half) losses.

Conclusions and Recommendations

The hoplite is a tough, cost effective, if inflexible unit. They are decent at soaking up missle fire (especially with Hoplite Wall) due to their high armor and shield values and can actually comport themselves relatively well against comparative melee infantry and route poorer quality melee infantry. Also, based on these tests, it seems that (if deployed correctly - with only hoplite wall) that Hoplites are superior to most comparatively priced and even some more expensive spear infantry. Another interesting find was that elite Hoplites are absolute beasts! They can outright defeat elite melee infantry in 1v1 combat. Despite their staying power, I still cannot recommend pitting hoplites against comparatively priced or more expensive melee infantry without providing them some support. You will be able to hold that unit for quite some time, but you will ultimately lose that skirmish. However, against other spear units and poorer quality melee infantry, if needed, you can let your hoplites engage and essentially "set them and forget them". If the enemy doesn't support their spears or poor quality melee infantry, your hoplites will generally come out on top. Another thing to watch for is the hoplites glaring weakness - being rear charged or flanked. DO NOT let this happen (this goes without saying).

The correct way to deploy your Hoplites is with Formation Attack off and Hoplite Wall on. This combo makes the Hoplites very tanky while still being able to rack up the kills. The correct way to this is begin with it off, charge/counter charge enemy infantry, then once the Hoplites engage, pop Hoplite Wall. That being said, Formation Attack may have situational uses (It gives you slightly more holding time) - don't write it off completely. However, as it stands, it just limits the Hoplites already unimpressive killing power and never ever ever use it without hoplite wall!

Even with this stance, the Hoplites won't turn into killing machines. In fact, they still take forever to route units. Interestingly, they usually begin fights at a disadvantage (probably based on losses on the charge) but the longer that they stay in the fight, the more they make up and, in many cases, surpass the enemy. However, this is troublesome because fights in R2: TW are not generally long and drawn out. They will never be your main killing force, but they should be able to handle themselves. There are units that they seem to "excel" against - lightly armored and low melee defence troops, as would be expected. The hoplites high armor and high melee defence (particulalry in Hoplite Wall formation) just lets them chew these units up.

Recommendations for Hoplite Use: Everyone who has read this is going to say (cover your ears kids) "No Sh*t, Sherlock" when they see my recommedation - use hoplites as your main holding force. These guys can hold pretty much any troop for ridiculous amounts of time. Use their holding power to go around and root the other guys in the buttocks! They should form an army core and I believe this is their intended role. I would recommend against using them as flanking forces, as they don't deliver much of a "shock" due to their slow kill rate. As for upgrading your hoplites, you can play to their strengths or you can try and bolster their weaknesses. For Strengths: Anything that increases Shield defense (armor) or melee defence is just going to make these guys even better. Otherwise, if you try and bolster their weaknesses, you may be able to turn them into decent killing machines - anything that raises melee attack or weapon damage is a must - with the focus being on melee attack.

Future tests: Despite the findings here, I find it highly unlikely that formation attack has absolutely no use for hoplites in the game. Further tests should be conducted to see if it has anti-cav benefits, missle soaking benefits, etc.

Hopefully, this guide wasn't too terrible, it was my 1st one. I think I'm not really providing any info that the community doesn't already know, but I think I'm writing it down for the 1st time (Just call me Homer). Thanks for reading.

A Piece on Pikes

Pike phalanxes were, essentially, what Alexander used to conquer the world. In a way, they were directly informed by Hoplites, but were seen as an advancement. Changes from the Hoplites included a longer spear (the pike) and a smaller shield.
Since Pikes also have a phalanx formation and are closely related to Hoplites, a few tests were done with them.

Athenian Pikes (600g) were Pitted against Roman Legionaries (660g). Results as follows:

1) With no formations enabled, the pikes were slaughtered, killing a mere 17 legionaries before routing (not surprising).
2) With just Pike Phalanx enabled, the Pikes were able to route the legionaries with 90% of their men remaining. They killed roughly 70 legionaries.
3) With both Pike Phalanx and Formation Attack enabled, the pikes were able to route the legionaries with 75% of their men remaining. They killed 80-90 legionaries.

**These tests were repeated several times - the skirmishes with formation attack lasted noticeably longer than when it was turned off.**

Recommendations: Surprisingly, it appears that formation attack has some benefits here. It significanly increased the holding time of the pike unit, increased their kill count (due to the longer battle), but caused the pikes to take more losses. Without formation attack, the pikes took fewer losses, had fewer kills, but were able to route the enemy much quicker. Of note, is that when formation attack was off, small "holes" appeared in the pike phalanx (no "holes" in the line form with formation attack). While it is unlikely that the AI would ever be able to take advantage of these holes, a particularly clever, observant, and skilled human player might be able to - making this formation more risky against human opponents. I would recommend, to use formation attack when you are using pikes defensively and plan on providing them with support (i.e., to protect missle troops, to hold a road in a town, to block off a flank, etc.). In these situations, the formation of holes when it is off could prove problematic. I would recommend turning formation attack off if you want to use pikes more aggressively, or when unit cohesion (the holes in the line) is not of high importance.

Before you blindly follow those recommendations, however, there has been another recommendation for formation use with pikes. The recommendation was given by Svenn and is as follows: Leave your pikes in formation attack all the time. There were a few reason for this. Recall that one of the things the we have to accept about Hoplites is their relative inflexibility. Pikes are not necessary burdened with this same flaw - they can be, in fact, a much more tatical unit. One thing that wasn't discussed about pikes in the early section is that they're great for battlefield control (if used with formation attack).

Again, Svenn brought these issues to my attention: Popping the Phalanx formation with pikes right before or after engaging an enemy does not work close to as well as it does with hoplites and hoplite wall. And, "while you can move a pike unit in phalanx up next to an enemy and the pike unit will engage, with the formation attack on you can just right click on the unit to have them attack. And attacking units with pikemen is perhaps the most tactical thing to do because pike units PUSH the other units back in a way most units cannot counter or do. This makes them particularly useful for boxing in units and returning fights (around gatehouses for example) to a manageable condition, it also can break an enemy battle line quickly and much more efficiently and neatly that elephants or cataphracts". It should be noted, that during my tests, when formation attack was off, the pikes did seem to do less 'pushing'.

So, there's a few options with pikes (if you're into the micromanaging thing) for you to get the best use out of them.
1) If you need them to route an enemy quickly with few losses and with little regard to battlefield control or tactics - take formation attack off.
2) You need to defend a bottleneck or protect other units - formation attack on.
3) You want to use your pikes for aggressive battlefield control - formation attack on.
4) If you're not into the micromanaging thing, it's a safe bet to leave formation attack on as pikes really perform well either way.

[ooga booga]

thanks abaut that

[Commiss4r]

Could you try this with Total Conversion mods (Radious, DEI, etc) on?

[KeeGeeBee]

imagine this scenario: me, playing egypt. one of the towns along my borders is attacked, have almost no army there. figure it'll be a decisive defeat but hey at least I can whittle down the enemy forces for when I take back the city. I only have 3 peasants, 2 pike units, 1 cav unit (general) and 1 bow unit. I think this is shit till I see the town square. there are only 2 entrances to the town square, and the enemy has few missile units. I block off the 2 entrances with pikes, run down the enemy missile units using my general. I keep the peasants just chilling in the centre of town, and use my bow unit to route/kill enemy stopped by the pikes. I won with a decisive victory, lost next to no soldiers.

[TeutonicTexan]

Great question: I used large unit size.

[Lakedaimon]

What unit size did you use whike testing?

[TeutonicTexan]

It would make more sense if it was good and I was clever. It was almost an extremely poor homophonic pun - punning the phrase "everything you wanted to know about _______ but were afraid to ask".

[Bobby Obbistan]

7.5/10 Good (.5 away from great) I think it was cool but honestly I don't get the pun. xD

[Gimmetoro]

Not sure if anyone else has addressed the "Formation" -On in these comments, but primarily its use is to maintain integrity of your line as well as allow your Hoplites to hold for a bit longer. It's not worth a d@mn in a "1v1" style fight, but most of the time, you wont be fighting 1v1... it's a team effort! It's mostly useful if you are playing defensivly with a lot of skirmishers and don't want the enemy to sneak through holes in your line or it gives the hoplites that extra bit of holding time to get your shock cav through the back for a rear charge against an enemy (or any other unit).

[Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

very nice I will try changing up my tactics with these lovable guys now :D

[Bobojax]

Sounds good to me! This guide was definitely helpful with the hoplite section too by the way so thank you... I dont use the formation attack much anymore :)