MvM BigRock: The Trouble Waves

Big Rock is my favorite map to play. The only problem is that the skill level of the pubs that I have to play with are less than stellar. Here are a few of the trouble waves made easy.

Bone Shaker - Wave 6

Why it can be challenging:

For many, this is their first introduction to the Giant Medic. They are not familiar with how the Giant Medic works or how to deal with it easily. This usually spells disaster for most teams.

The Giant Medic has 4500 HP and always carries the Quick Fix medigun. Like it's smaller uber medic counterpart, it will deploy it's uber if it or its heal patient's health is low.

If the Giant Medic's health drops below 50 HP, it will uber
If the patient's health drops below 50% of it's max, it will uber

It's quickfix heal rate is basically able to outheal any damage the team can dish out. The exception of course is 1 large burst of damage either from crit sticky traps or crit beggar's bazooka rocket spam. In a practical sense, the heal target will not die until the Giant Medic is dead.

How to make it easy:

There are two reliable ways to make Wave 6 seem entirely too easy:

* Demoman: Use the Scottish Resistance with maxed out damage. Use 1 crit canteen and lay down 14 stickies in the Giant Medic's path.

* Spy: Max out Knife Attack Speed and Penetration. Giant Medics will die in 5 swings

A quick correction to the video. Spy's fully upgraded backstab does 938, so 5 backstabs is 4690.

Broken Parts - Wave 2

Why it can be challenging:

This is the first tough wave of Broken Parts and is quite the ramp up in difficulty when compared to Wave 1. It's the first wave where the team must break off and play their roles. The introduction of the high-HP tank at the same time as the Giant Heavy + Giant Medic combo can be very challenging for teams that are ill-prepared for it.

That intimidating combo comes in just the second wave, when there isn't an insane amount of credits to max everything out. I believe there are 2900 credits total if you received an A+ on Wave 1, which is still a decent amount.

If the team doesn't have either a pyro or tap-fire beggars bazooka soldier to dedicate to being the tank buster, they will have a hell of a time keeping the wave under control. Teams that don't, usually have to place too many resources (people) to killing the tank and the giants march on to the bomb path without resistance.

The good thing about the wave is that after the initial wave of bowman are dead, only the Giant Heavy/Medic and 3 Super Scouts spawn until AFTER the tank is destroyed. This means that if the team can destroy the Heavy/Medic pair early, only 1 person has to baby-sit the bomb against the Giant Scouts while the rest of the team can gang up on the tank

The second hard part of the wave is the last flurry of 3 Giant Scouts that spawn at the same time. Usually bad teams will be pushed out of the Mine by this point and trying to account for 3 Giant Scouts while they're already struggling with all of the soldiers usually proves too difficult for pub teams.

How to make it easy:

Like I mentioned, if the team can take care of the Giant Heavy + Medic very early on, they can gang up on the tank and as long as someone babysits the bomb against the 3 Giant Scouts, the bomb will stay in the Mine. The rest of the wave is quite easy if you can keep the bomb in the Mine.

So, with 2900 credits, how can we make this easy?

DEMOMAN:

* Use Scottish Resistance
* Spend initial 1500 Credits on Damage x2, Reload x2
* Wave 2 upgrade Damage to max
* Buy 2 Crit Canteens if you don't have a Kritzkrieg Medic on the team

But even then I messed up my sticky trap...and we got pushed back pretty far with a couple close calls. Let's try it again

The Giants die almost immediately after spawning, super scouts are no issue...and I'm free to set up my spawn camp of the soldiers.

SPY:

* Any Knife will do
* Spend initial 1500 Credits on Knife speed x4, Sapper x1, Movement x1
* Wave 2 upgrade Knife Penetration x3

Your upgrades are set to get rid of the giant medic as quick as possible. You don't need resistances yet since you have the Dead Ringer. You don't need max sapper upgrade. The Penetration is more important.

PYRO:

* Your role is to be the tank buster. You want to be able to solo it and free your team up
* Max out flamethrower damage. NOT Burn damage
* Get a few points into ammo capacity. Maybe take a Refill Ammo canteen with you so you can kill the tank without having to search for ammo boxes
* Phlog is the best choice against the tank, but if you really feel like using a flamethrower with airblast...that's fine too.

Broken Parts - Wave 6

So this is definitely the hardest wave of the Mecha Engine tour and for most, this is why kids waste countless hours only to never get their Botkiller Mk. II

I'm not going to lie, it is a pretty tough wave. I can do most of the work to carry the wave, but for this wave I'll at least need one other competent person to help.

Why it can be challenging:

* All of the regular bots are crit boosted. They spawn in hordes and the crit spam can be overwhelming
* The tank spawns at the same time as the Giant Heavy/Medic pairs. Not only this, groups of Super Scout pairs spawn and try to sneak past the front line. There are several duties that need to be covered:

- Tank Busting [Pyro/Soldier/Scout can help]
- Dealing with Super Scouts [Soldier/Engie/Scout]
- Destroying Giant Medics/Heavy pairs [Demo/Heavy/Medic/Soldier/Spy/Sniper]


The way I see it, the wave is basically split in two.

The first part is all of the regular bots who are crit boosted. This can be hellish for some, but really you can make this portion easy in a couple of ways:

- Spawn camp the hell out of them. Concentrate so much damage towards that spawn that they die shortly after appearing. This maximizes splash damage and does not allow them to spread out.
- Corner camp. Hide behind a corner and only deal with bots as they come around the corner. This helps 'thin' out their numbers as you only have to fight a few at a time. It also negates their 'no-damage-falloff' advantage due to their crit-boost.

Either way, you can always recover this part of the wave even if you're pushed back to the hatch as there are no mecha engineers that spawn to set up a teleporter. You can push your way back into the cave and get ready for the second part of the wave;

The second part is where things get tough.

The first tank spawns followed shortly by the first Giant Heavy/Medic pair. One person should be dedicated to killing the tank (preferably a Phlog Pyro). The rest of the team should be focusing on the Giant Medic.

ENGINEER:
Place your sentry in the dedicated sentry-block spot


The reason for that is for blocking the Super Scouts that attempt to sneak by. Also helps out on the tank

Your sentry can do a fair amount of damage to the tank. Leaving it in this spot will allow you to damage the second tank that appears (presumably while the pyro is still on the first tank), block Super Scouts, and draw aggro from the Giant Heavy so that your team can flank the Giant Medic.

SOLDIER:
Help with tank busting to start. Move to flank the Giant Medic, using crit canteens to help finish it fast. Cleaning up super scouts will also be one of your duties because of the stun of the Rocket Specialist upgrade. When Super Scouts are coming, you should be in the bomb path so that you're shooting at fast targets running towards you. If you're off at an angle trying to hit the scouts from the side, it will be quite difficult. Soldier is the most versatile class and is good at covering all of the duties needed: tank-busting, giant medic killing, super scout denial. I will usually go Beggar's Bazooka soldier if the team is really struggling.

DEMO:
Set up your sticky traps for killing the Giant Medics. Do not get distracted with the tank. Stickies aren't that great for sustained damage against Giants, however...so the biggest asset to your team is taking care of the Medics.

SCOUT:
Provide a distraction for the Giant Heavy to keep the pressure off of your damage dealers. Time your Milk with the Super Scouts.

Keep an eye out for the tank health, if the pyro (or other tank-buster) seems to be struggling with it, you may have to break off and help. Your scattergun with only 1600 credits into damage upgrades is a nice help to chip away at the tank. Your damage output with the soda popper can almost keep up with the pyro's. There's only Giants left on the map, hopefully your team can gather that cash. Even if they don't, it doesn't matter. The biggest loss to the team if you go attack the tank is the loss of your Mad Milk. You'll have to react to the situation.

HEAVY:
Help out with Giant kiling. Don't worry about the tank. Body block super scouts if the engineer sentry isn't there. Get up close and keep some Uber canteens on you. Otherwise use Crit Canteens. For the most part, stay in the bomb path as well so that Super Scouts are running TOWARDS you.

MEDIC:
Bring one of those damage class teammates up close to the Giant Medic with your shield so that you can kill it fast. If the tank situation doesn't look good...you can help by sharing crit canteens with the tank buster. Once you share your canteen, you can switch off to your syringe gun and pelt the tank. Surprisingly, it does a fair amount of damage.

SNIPER:
Time your fully charged headshot on the Giant Medic to get the last hit. Otherwise, just keep on doing the same

SPY:
Should be obvious. Kill the Giant Medics. Sap Super Scouts when you can. Also pester all of the other giants.

PYRO:
Dedicate yourself to the tank. It helps to spend extra credits on crit canteens before the tank appears so you can kill the first 2 tanks fast

The third tank is always a problem for bad teams. You will have to trust your teammates with the giants and catch the tank at the right time. You're a role player and you are at your most efficient killing tanks. Trying to fight giants usually leads to lots and lots of deaths. Focus on the tank instead.

I'll borrow a replay from my other guide to show when to catch tank 3:

-------
Some of the most common mistakes during the tank portion:

- Too many people focus on the first two tanks. Only 1 person (maybe 2 depending on your pyro) should focus on the tanks. The rest need to take care of the Giants. If the second tank needs help later, then you can break off and assist.

- Attacking the Giant Heavy/Medic from the front. The heavy is shielding his medic from damage. This is useless. You need to rotate around and flank the Medic.

- Pyros trying to fight giants too much during the 3rd tank. I realize you're pushed back, but you need to get on that 3rd tank. There's only a small window to catch it and ride it back.

- Nobody watching for Super Scouts. Everyone assumes that someone else has it

Outro

These are a few recommendations for the hard waves of Big Rock. It's one of the best maps that can go really smoothly when you go against the meta set-up. My ideal team would consist of:

Spy
Soldier (Beggar's Bazooka)
Soldier (Beggar's Bazooka)
Pyro (Phlog)
Engineer
Demo

A good sniper can replace either soldier or demoman.

Then again, if the team is OP the game becomes very stale. Part of the fun is struggling with players of different skill levels.

But one of the most important things for getting through Big Rock is to have a class that can be a tank buster. The two most practically efficient at doing so are: Beggar's Bazooka Soldier and Phlog Pyro. Scout's scatterguns are an alternative, but it's not as practical since you still need to collect cash. I've actually never tried it with a 2nd scout (Built for damage w/ crit-a-cola) trying to be the main tank buster. And I probably won't with the pubs I get. It would be interesting. It'd be playing with a handicap vs. just having a proper pyro

Just a quick update: There 2 other classes that can bust tanks quite well that isn't well known
- Demoknight with maxed out Sword weapon. Eyelander doesn't get random crits, so it's not as good of a tankbuster.
- Engineer with 1 sentry firing speed and then maxed out wrench speed. Use your wrench against the tank while your sentry shoot at it automatically. Follow the tank with your sentry and continue whacking away.

I'm thinking about adding Wave 3 of Broken Parts as well. In general, I don't think it's a very hard wave at all, but sometimes it can get really frustrating when the team is bad. If you would like me to give tips for another class during any of the waves, just ask. I try to play all of the classes equally.

Take some advice, but then go out and try for yourself. You'll never truly learn for yourself until you struggle through the waves.

Thanks for reading. Now stop sucking.

[❤Federa❤]

Very important guide. Very helpful. Thanks!

[itsgalf]

Valinek, it would be nice if that were the case. The majority of people who play Big Rock would get kicked in Two Cities right away. The quality of players just isn't the same. I don't know how it is in Boot Camp servers, but for Mann Up, that's definitely the case. I think Two Cities is more difficult than Mecha anyway....all except for a few waves of Broken Parts. That can still give some Two Cities vets problems.

CAR_, pretty sure I've played with that scout once or twice. He's always scout - it's a bit weird. It's not possible to carry most of the teams as scout.

Also, you've got a point about the Spy upgrade. When I usually go Spy, it's because nobody went scout and we also don't have a medic pick class (Soldier, Pyro, Heavy, Medic, Engineer, Engineer). I usually have no faith that the second engineer would be any helpful if I forced him to scout or demo, so I just pick spy. I'll switch up my wave 1 upgrades so that I can have full penetration for wave 2.

[itsgalf]

Grill, I found it quite easy.

[bopperoni]

i found this guide difficult to masturbate to. 3/10

[Soldier Claus]

And I would save my money for better upgrades, even if they can't be used right away.

[Vallinek]

To grab money and do damage, of the team is crappy enough?
I guess Damage Scout would technically be better for this role, but there's only one refund available, so you gotta put some insight into this.

[Soldier Claus]

Why would you play Spy on waves without giants?

[Vallinek]

True, but still.
Armor Penetration is useless on waves without Giants. Those are rare, but still happen.
I even heard opinions that sapper upgrades, even the very first one, are worthless. Some people think about upgrading anything else after maxing out Armor Penetration and Movement Speed. Armor Penetration is a very valuable upgrade, but it works only on Giants, so on waves/missions that are less giant-heavy, this isn't as effective as on other ones.

[Soldier Claus]

Most of the Giant Medics in Two Cities don't have charges. And even when they do, Two Cities doesn't penalize you for losing ground like Bigrock does. And there aren't any major threats on the map at the same time. Two Cities Giant Medics don't count.

[Soldier Claus]

Armor Penetration is much more important than Swing Speed for Spy. Every 400 credits in Penetration increases damage against giants by 100%, whereas 800 credits in Swing Speed doesn't even double DPS. If you're having trouble killing the Giant Medic on Wave 2 of Broken Parts before impatient teammates pop it, one Uber canteen is a cheap way to get in all five stabs in one go. Movement Speed is much more important than Knife Speed because it lets you dodge, circle-strafe giants, catch Super Scouts, etc.

Also, I recommend backstabbing Super Scouts over sapping them.

And maybe put in something about how good Scout is with tank-killing. One time I was on a Broken Parts server where a 130-tour Scout ragequit because I played Wave 1 as Demo without upgrades and then switched to Spy for the giants. He seemed to think I was actually going to focus the tank had I stayed Demo, for some reason.