Bleed and Madness

The guide hereby represents the summary of hints, information, and experience I've acquired while trying to find the optimal PVP bleed build.

This guide expects some knowledge of game, since I won't be explaining how to get the gear/weapons.

Why bleed sucks in PVP

Among the 3 status effects players can use, the Bleed status effect is renowned to be the most ineffective for several reasons. I will illuminate three:

1. Bleed status effect doesn't reward the player for applying it to the enemy respectively. The bleed must be stacked up to 1000 for it to proc, and after you pump those numbers on the enemy, he will suffer a FIXATED 200 HP loss, cut of his stamina bar by 25%, and also anytime he is not jumping, running, dodging, he will only walk. At first sight these effects may seem decent to you, however, the bleed can be applied ONLY ONCE per 10 seconds, and you CAN NOT keep the bleed bar stacks when you are hitting an enemy that already suffers its effects. Not to mention the fact that you might not be able to stack it even once; there are only 2 weapons that can somewhat apply bleed instantly, which are the executioner's chariot lance with its heavy attack/running attack, and curved twinblade infused with bleed, obviously they must be at least +10/+5, crest of blood, shadow's gauntlet equipped, as for the other innate bleed/infused with bleed weapons, with the upward mentioned gear you'll have to hit them 5-10 times to proc bleed, which equals to the number of hits you need to already kill someone in a PVP with any other build.

2. It isn't worth maximizing bleed potential in PVP. Bleed damage on weapon scales from the character's dex and faith (dex > faith), therefore, it is 100 times better to just go dex/faith build and infuse your weapon with lightning instead of bleed. But if you are a madman such as I am, you can try doing that, and all you will get is a mere +-30 damage at 40 dex/faith, which will let you do 2 hits less (5-8) to proc bleed.

3. Its more of a PVE thing, but bleed weapons will be useless in mid/late game since there will be a lot more enemies and bosses immune to bleed.

With all these minuses, why even bother using bleed builds? Madness, desire to struggle, and the great triumph of murder, are the only fuels that make you want to use these builds.

Bleed Build fundamentals

There are 2 basics of any bleed build:
1. Shadow gauntlets
2. Crest of blood

1. Shadow gauntlets represent the essentials of the bleed builds because they add +25/+50/+60 bleed damage to any weapon. Since phis def in ds2 sucks, it doesn't matter what gear you wear, that's why shadow gauntlets are essential, instead of being just another reskin of your hands it gives you a bleed damage bonus.
How it works:
If the weapon WITH NO INNATE bleed damage, but INFUSED with bleed stone it gets additional 25 bleed damage
if the weapon HAS INNATE bleed damage it gets +50 bleed damage
if the weapon HAS INNATE bleed damage and also INFUSED with bleed it gets +60 bleed damage

2. Crest of blood is also a very important part of the bleed build but it isn't as valuable as shadow gauntlets because you have 4 slots for rings (rings > fashion), 2 of which are for the third dragon ring and +3 HP ring. It is more likely to be the least valuable ring anytime when you are not stacking bleed on the enemy/after the bleed is applied for the next 10 secs you might be needing to replace it with red/blue tearstone ring or etc.
Hot it works:
adds FIXATED +50 bleed damage to weapons with INNATE/INFUSED bleed damage. But no bonuses for weapons with no bleed damage whatsoever.

How you know bleed's applied and what it gives

It's quite hard to determine whether bleed is applied or not, but here are some clues:

1. On the bleed proc hit, the damage will be slightly higher than usual, no need to do the math, it is very noticeable on the enemy health bar.
2. Blood particles will appear around the enemy once it is applied, but it is the least visible aspect, especially mid PVP, when the players have a red phantom aura.
Here's how it looks, I chose a fitting environment so it could be visible anyhow:
3. You will hear the heartbeat of the player (Yourself included) when they are undergoing bleeding effects.
4. Human-like enemies will start walking for no reason while they are not running, jumping, dodging, and when they are poopwalking.

Now then, when you determined if the bleed status effect applied, there are several things that you can do:
1. As the bleed effects suggest, it is the best time to become aggressive. When the bleed effect is applied, the roles between the hunter and the haunted reverse, allow you to start pressing the opponent until their stamina is low, which will be easier since their stamina will be reduced. For instance, for an average PVP build, with 22-28 end, the player will be able to do 5 dodges, but with the bleed effect, they will be able to do 3-4.
2. Players with the bleed status effect will become more passive, trying to run away to reduce it, which will take time since there're no in-game items that can cure bleed. With ceased pressure on you, you can use this period to heal yourself.
3. Do nothing. Actually, the arsenal of things you can do when the bleed is applied on the opponent depends on the opponent; bleed is very vulnerable to veteran players, that doesn't panic once they are under bleed. They still can use dodge, attack, run and still kick your ass. At these moments you can only be satisfied with the additional 200 damage on the enemy.

Bleed Weapons formulas

Throughout the hours I've spent only on bleed builds, here are the things I've learned:

1. There are 3 types of bleed weapons;

Weapons that have 60-75% phis dmg / 40-25% of bleed weapons. Weapons like these must be used as the primary ones in fights when you are not sure if the enemy is immune to bleeding/you can not rely on a bleed effect (for instance with veteran players). In a fight like this, bleeding will be your secondary damage, which will be proceeded as a pleasant bonus in the fight, but you shouldn't rely on it. The best weapon in this category is an executioner's chariot lance, it has decent phis damage on its own, and if you will be lucky enough to hit with a heavy/running attack it will more likely proc bleed. Good for enemies with high bleed resist.

Weapons that specialize in proceeding bleed on the enemy instantly. Weapons like this have a ratio of 3:1 / 2:1 bleed to phis damage. You want to use these when you want to slow down the opponent or to start pressure on him with other weapons. For instance, curved twinblade, is the best and the worst in this category since it is hard to acquire. If you will infuse it with bleed stone, shadow gauntlets, crest of blood, and stone ring equipped, you will be able to easily proc bleed with 1 two-handed light and heavy(~250 bleed damage x (3 hits with light attack + 1 heavy) = 1000 bleed damage) in a single encounter thanks to stone bleed. After that, you can switch crest of blood and your weapon to something that has a pressure potential to end the fight. These weapons are suitable only for PVP.

Mixed weapons with ratio of 50/50 phis to bleed damage. Power stanced notched whips are the best examples. The reason why notched whips aren't in an upper category is that you have to do 4 hits with it, and you surely won't be able to do that in a single encounter as twinblades. These weapons are decent at pumping bleed and doing damage, it won't lose much in a PVE since you still have about 400+ damage (on the instance of power stanced notched whips) nor in PVP.

2. Bleed stones will more likely ruin your weapons. The only weapons you want to infuse it with are only the weapons with innate bleed damage that you will use only for applying bleed fast OR the weapons that have an S scaling in dex/strength since they won't lose much.

3. There are weapons with an innate bleed that may not fit your build whether it's str/bleed or dex/bleed, but have a decent move set or have a good correlation with your main weapon. I recommend infusing it with raw stone. To illustrate, I had an str/bleed build with an executioner's chariot on my right and a moon sickle on my left, since a moon sickle has a dex scaling, I infused it with raw stone so it could anyhow fit my build with its damage. The reason I chose moon sickle is that it correlates with my executioner's chariot light attack that staggers the opponent enough time, on the fitting distance for moon sickle's blade for the highest damage. This is btw is the true combo that deals around 500 bleed damage and 350-400 phis damage.

4. Bleed serum is an alternative for weapons, that are being ruined by bleeding stones, however, I don't use it myself and I don't recommend it for one big reason:
Bleeding serum doesn't pay off itself anyhow. Bleeding serum buffs the weapon's INNATE bleed dmg by 30%, which will reduce the number of hits you need to do to apply bleed by 1-2. For instance, most of the bleed +10 weapons with innate bleed, shadow gauntlets, crest of blood equipped have on average ~200 bleed damage(5 hits), with the bleeding serum, it will pump up to 260, which will be equal to 4 hits to apply. Now then, the main reason you use bleeding serum is to enhance the speed of processing bleed on weapons with Innate bleed and that is being ruined when infused with bleed, however, in this case, you want to use any other cheaper resin to enhance the damage of the weapon against someone who has high resist/immune to bleed/knows how to deal with bleed(veteran players) OR you simply use any other weapon that can apply bleed instantly like bleed infused twinblades. However exactly this moment is up to you, but I don't use it since more practical ways exist.

STR/BLEED build

Now then, time to devour the very gods.

This is, so far the MOST SUCCESSFUL bleed build with true combos I have discovered, that CAN ACTUALLY deal with rapiers/katana meta builds.









Now then here're the stats and gear:

I invested the rest points until 155 on adaptability.

Description:
Weapons:
+5 Executioner's chariot lance on the right
+10 moon sickle infused with raw on the left

Gear: Anything good except for always book gauntlets slot for shadow gauntlets (low weight + bleed dmg) AND at least 60 poise.

Rings:
Third dragon ring-based ring, never switch it.
+3 HP ring - change depending on HP
Crest of blood - change, when bleeding is useless against someone / after the bleed is applied. (Recommend changing it to a stone ring.)
Old Leo Ring - the thing that pumps executioner's chariot lance damage by 12.5%, to somehow be able to trade with katanas and rapiers.

Why strength?:
Executioner's Chariot is the S tier in the bleed weapons tier list in PVP, the fundamental of the whole build, a sigma weapon that doesn't care if the prey is immune to bleeding, it will do big damage anyway. Also, procs bleeding with a single heavy/running attack (If all hits are landed successfully). The length and poise damage and the consequent availability to hit the enemy with a sickle will help you trade with rapiers and katanas, except for the bewitched alonne sword and washing pole (any other katana with a longer running attack range than the lance's) In short, the best bleed weapon for any case in PVP, that's why it's strength/bleed.

How to utilize the build's potential:
The hunting grounds are the middle distance between you and the opponent, always orient on your moon sickle, and be sure that you will hit him with the blade of the sickle, not the handle.

True combos. Main aspect of the build, the true combos are:
1. Light attack with sickle, light with lance
2. Light attack with lance, light with sickle
Mix up these movements and change the order once the opponent adapts to them.
However, light attacks with a lance are preferable; if your opponent dodges your lance attack you will have your sickle that can turn 180°, almost always you will hit'em with its blade if he was dodging with the target locked on you, no matter if it is your right, left, your back or even if he simple backed off, you will hit him. After you hit him, you can hit him with a lance again. This is a very important ace in your sleeve. HOWEVER, if you started with sickle AND missed, dodge away, you won't be able to catch him with a lance since it's targeting is very low.
With a little bit of practice it will be easy to catch on.

This build is bad at initiating the fight, almost always you will be vulnerable after the lance running attack and etc. The only times when you press is when the opponent suffers bleeding effects. If the enemy plays passive and uses shields, use your sickle(it will do 35% of its original damage).

But it is not up to me to teach you how to play with it. The main aspects of this build are true combos and bleeding.

[JB]

Yeah I hate healing too, It's just an example of what you can do. Also you reminded me about bleeding serum, I should add this to the guide, thanks.

[Blitz]

interesting thoughts on a bleed build. I just started my own and have a similar setup though I opt for more fashion souls than poise. Another good weapon combo to mention would be powerstanced ashen warrior swords with left sword being bleed and right normal so you can use bleeding serum allows for very potent combos while still having respectable damage and bleed buildup. Only part I disagree with is the mention of using the bleed as an opportunity to heal, leave that stuff in elden ring and ds3. If you're dueling someone its dishonorable to heal.