Steam OS 3.0 maybe should've used Gnome instead of KDE Plasma...

[Xurias]

I know some of you are reading this and thinking "Why? Gnome is bloated and not as familiar to former Windows folks!" but hear me out here on this one...

Phoronix did a bunch of benchmarks recently comparing game performance between Gnome Wayland, Plasma Wayland to Gnome, Plasma, and XFCE running X11. And aside from a few weird ones where XFCE on X11 came out on top, Gnome on Wayland had the best framerates on most of the benchmarks. And these were all done on relatively recent Radeon hardware (of which, the Steam Deck will be using integrated Radeon)

Benchmarks can be found here: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=kde-gnome-wayland21&num=2

I'd also like to note there are parts where they mention KDE Plasma on Wayland completely crashed on some of the games, or were buggy. Steam OS 3.0 / Steam Deck is said to be using.. guess what? KDE on Wayland.

I've also had issues where changing the audio output doesn't always work for the Clementine app when using KDE Plasma with Pipewire audio, but do not have this issue on Gnome.

But isn't Gnome a huge memory hog?

The steam deck is said to use the same amount of RAM as what I currently use, 16 GB. And I game just fine on mine. Also, an OS running default Gnome with no extensions loaded or other stuff to bloat it up takes up somewhere in the ballpark of 800 to 900 MB of RAM, or so that was my experience after doing a fresh Arch Linux install with Gnome. I understand that's a bit more than KDE Plasma taking up around 500 MB, but not by too much. It also still doesn't come close to the ~1.5 GB to 2 GB that Windows takes up with nothing running after a cold boot. I can say it has posed no issue memory wise at 16 GB, and the smoother experience I have from Gnome is worth the few extra hundred MB it takes to run it.

I don't think it would make a good interface for a portable handheld computer.

On the contrary, with Gnome having larger icons and touch gestures built in this makes it more suited to the small touch screen that will come with the Steam Deck. (Note: I say small when compared to normal TV's or computer monitors). Also it works fine when using a mouse and some keyboard shortcuts when using a normal monitor (such as when you dock the steamdeck using USB-C dock to play on a normal TV or monitor). Gnome has basically done what Windows 8 failed at trying to do; make an interface that works good for both touch and Keboard/mouse.

Even so, Valve is very unlikely to change their mind about using Plasma just because you made a forum thread. Especially this far into Steam OS 3.0's development.

This is true. I'm moreso putting this thread here for discussion and thoughts among fellow Steam users. Since... you know that's what this place is for. As it literally is called the "Discussions" section. I doubt Valve will even read this thread, let alone consider using Gnome over KDE Plasma.

[skinnyraf]

KDE Plasma in SteamOS 3.0 is not used to run games, AFAIR. It is for general computing. In the game mode (i.e. when the Steam Deck interface is up), gamescope is the micro-compositor used to display games and the Steam interface.

[Xurias]

Originally posted by skinnyraf:

KDE Plasma in SteamOS 3.0 is not used to run games, AFAIR. It is for general computing. In the game mode (i.e. when the Steam Deck interface is up), gamescope is the micro-compositor used to display games and the Steam interface.

I was not aware of this. Thank you for letting me know. I had mental image of game crashes from Kwin and Wayland. This is good to hear that won't be the case.

[retrogunner]

I have same observations as the OP.

Remember, in the classic setup, X11 is the display manager. You need an additional display window manager to tile, move, resize, etc. the app windows you open - which is where KDE/Gnome/XFCE comes in.

With Linux, your DWM can be anything you want - you can even set it so xclock if you desire. If DWM is set to Steam with "Big Picture" (or the Steam Deck version of it) - you should not have the overhead of a full KDE experience (no file manager, widgets, etc.). Just the library dependencies of what Steam needs.

If you select a game in your library, show its properties, then reveal its local files, it should open a new instance of the default file manager full screen (as there are no window widgets to reposition or resize.)

I can understand why Valve selected KDE (I abandoned it back after 2.x for XFCE due to bloat over KDE 1.x). I hope KDE is for the Desktop mode only.

No matter what, I'll likely be looking into a how to debloat Steam OS 3.x anyway given I want minimal amount of cruft. Recently, Steam OS 3.x went from 20+GB to 10GB. I think they could get it even slimmer to under 5GB or less (really more like less than a DVD image size).

Remember, Valve indicated the OS partitions are "read-only" unless switched to Developer Mode.

Since there are 3 partitions: OS Current, OS Previous, /home - they should be getting the OS partition as small as possible (with free space for security errata growth) since OS will really be twice the size given two duplicate partitions. On the 64GB Deck, that duplicate OS is using premium space.

[metalfiller]

You won't be running games from Steam running inside plasma, but by default (most players wouldn't tinker too much with the Deck and stick to the defaults) it will run on its own session (that is called Gamescope? not sure if it's that the name), more optimized to run games.

And even if you decide to reconfigure SD's system to run everything from a "desktop-like" session, KDE is receiving lots of patches and fixes so it will run better than is doing now.

And despite what benchmarks say, Gnome is a sinking ship, that everything that attaches to it is falling down to the bottom of the pit. Gnome is amputating itself by removing core features that have been extensively and professionally proven to be essential in a desktop metaphore. Its core devs lost their way and they won't listen the community and their needs. Just keep blindly walking towards the edge of the cliff. And also they are just a cheap and imperfect plagiarist copy of IPad OS UX/UI.


I've been a long time user of Gnome, but since some time the imperfections and glitches of Gnome were so infuriating that after so much DE-hopping from time to time, this year I could finally migrate to KDE for good. It's not perfect, but is more usable. Sometimes it offers too much options (and the simplicity is one of the few things I'd miss from Gnome), but other than that, I'm feeling that KDE is becoming little by little more stable.

[skinnyraf]

Originally posted by metalfiller:

I've been a long time user of Gnome, but since some time the imperfections and glitches of Gnome were so infuriating that after so much DE-hopping from time to time, this year I could finally migrate to KDE for good. It's not perfect, but is more usable. Sometimes it offers too much options (and the simplicity is one of the few things I'd miss from Gnome), but other than that, I'm feeling that KDE is becoming little by little more stable.

Interesting. I've been a KDE user for more than 15 years (and WindowMaker before that) and I have finally switched to Gnome (in the form of Ubuntu) in two years ago. I no longer use my home PC for any serious project/dev/scientific work and I realised that Plasma was an overkill for my needs. Gnome is perfect as a glorified launcher for Steam, Lutris, browser and a few other simple apps.

[gibblets]

I much prefer Gnome myself and it's definitely faster and *much* more stable, but both are fine for how the Deck uses it. It's basically just for users who want to use it as a desktop or laptop system and I think most people will have the best experience just sticking to the default Steam interface and never going to the desktop. I'd rather get my phone out or something if I need to check something online than deal with navigating either KDE or Gnome on the Steam Deck touchpad and controls.

[powerarmour]

I think folks are getting too hung up on Desktop usage here, hopefully the Steam Deck is more focused on running the actual new Steam UI first and foremost.
The important thing here is having a system that's reliable and easy to use for noobs, and not to pander to folks who want to argue about DWM's which is mostly irrelevant in this case IMHO.

[retrogunner]

powerarmour - I agree about the hang up. Everyone has their own use-case and experiences. Disrespecting folks who freely contribute their energies to project isn't cool.

If folks have a different preference, they can either pivot elsewhere OR provide positive/actionable criticism OR get engaged actively/passively to make a difference. If not, it's much easier & fun to quietly step back, shut up, and admire the dumpster fire for entertainment purposes as folks flush themselves away. Ever see someone touch something hot, flinch hard and you laugh your butt off. Ya. Folks only "learn from the burn".

As for optimization, Valve really has to deliver the basic software optimization & fully functioning hardware. This isn't some Valve-time around HL3 thing. They have really smart people and contract-for-hire even smarter people as needed. They'll balance software optimization with the time they left. ATM, the hardware is a priority. Then like the Steam Client and their other software (TF2, CS:GO, etc.), Valve will vigorously iterate Steam OS 3.x.

Plus, Steam's Linux users are a smart lot. We "1%" (according to Steam usage atm) will be passionately tailoring, optimizing and improving our Steam Decks into the best mobile gaming platform.

KDE or Gnome, it won't matter when playing a game - only if you use Desktop/Developer mode. And then, install whatever Window Manager you want and set your DWM.

[Javier]

My opinion is that valve should release a version without a desktop environment for advanced users who prepare Steam machines. Only the machine should boot up and show the Steam big picture interface and play. Everything that happens behind if necessary, through the Linux terminal.

[Captain Kek]

Mate is a much better choice since it's still familiar for Windows users and is as light if not lighter than KDE Plasma.

[Megalomaniakaal]

Looking at those charts, they are virtually the same performance(within margin of error), with the sole exception of Hitman 2 which is a known issue from what I am reading in there, and seeing how the difference reduces significantly at 4k it is a clear indication of cpu bottleneck.

With enough dev time dedicated to it(and perhaps some assistance from valve) this too can likely be resolved. Whatever the reasons valve has chosen KDE over Gnome are likely still valid and it'll ultimately be fine I recon.

[wardrobe]

Valve are a successful company, they employ very bright people, i will put my trust in that.