SILENT HILL 2

[› Furin]

All of the characters in this game display some form of mental illness, physical illness, or both. All characters (perhaps except Laura) appear to have severe depression.

The backstories and story events of multiple characters are indicative of anti-family, anti-male/anti-patriarchy themes.

Spoilers Below:

James Sunderland

Became depressed and frustrated with his life when his wife became terminally ill. He became a drunk and ultimately killed his wife by smothering her with a pillow. Over the course of the story, he is berated by both Laura and Angela for being a bad husband that didn’t love his wife and wanted her dead.

Maria

Revealed to be a figment of James’s imagination based on his dead wife, born out of his sexual frustration. Tempts James with infidelity after he sees through her disguise as Mary and rejects her, even saying, “I can give you what she never could. I can be better than her.”

Angela Orosco

Grew up in an abusive family. Her father and brother sexually abused her. Her mother verbally abused her. She was also sexually abused at her job as a waitress. Depressed and suicidal, she accuses James of wanting to abuse her just like her father did. Also accuses James of infidelity. It is revealed she killed her father. After the Abstract Daddy boss fight, she goes over and repeatedly kicks it before throwing a TV on it. She also yells at James and demands he “not order [her] around” before saying “or you could just force me, like he always did” referring to her father. She then calls her father a “disgusting pig” followed by “I hate you! I hate you…” James then proceeds to assure her he isn’t going to hurt her. This is when she accuses him of being a bad husband who hated Mary, “didn’t want her around anymore”, and “probably found someone else.”

Eddie Dombrowski

He is repeatedly insulted by Laura for being a “gutless fatso” that “would just slow [her] down”. Tells James, “You and me, we’re the same. We’re not like other people. Don’t you know that?!” It is revealed he ultimately stood up to one of his bullies by shooting his dog and then him. Ultimately killed by James.

Laura

As mentioned already, an 8 year old girl who repeatedly berates and insults James and Eddie. Despite behaving rather sadistically around James and Eddie, she doesn’t seem to have any “monsters.”
Specific to the remake, Maria and Angela’s physical appearances have been altered. Maria’s outfit no longer shows her bare midriff and Angela’s face and voice make her seem more androgynous.

Given there is an in-universe explanation for Maria being dressed in a way James finds particularly sexy, her change in wardrobe seems unnecessary and is likely politically motivated.

As a result of all these things, this game will be added as not recommended.

[Skulls]

Also used the woke consulting company Hit Detection to help sanitize the game. Some other stuff discussed in this video too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWw35U2wXzE

[Leozaz il Remoto]

the "re"make is woke but i don't think the og was woke

[Patola [Linux]]

Yeah, framing the entire mental illness aspect of the game (which is the same in the 2001 original, where wokeness as we know it didn't even exist) as woke seemed preposterous to me. Felt like a parody of a criticism. "Anti-family"? Maybe in a kind of particular interpretation, but that is quite open-ended. Nobody will leave the game thinking "whew! It's very complicated to form a family, maybe I shouldn't try it".

As for the cosmetic changes, specially Angela, yeah, they were bad. But maybe it was quality control and not wokeness. In any fashion, I installed a mod to correct Angela in my game. And I found Maria to be one of the least attractive women in games ever.

[› Furin]

Originally posted by Patola Linux:

Yeah, framing the entire mental illness aspect of the game (which is the same in the 2001 original, where wokeness as we know it didn't even exist) as woke seemed preposterous to me. Felt like a parody of a criticism. "Anti-family"? Maybe in a kind of particular interpretation, but that is quite open-ended. Nobody will leave the game thinking "whew! It's very complicated to form a family, maybe I shouldn't try it".

What I interpret as anti-family/anti-male is the portrayal of dysfunctional families in the case of James and moreso Angela.

In both cases, the male of the family James and Angela's father is framed as abusive and a bad influence on the rest of the family. Also common to both cases, is a family member committing murder against other family members.

The game frames Mary and Angela as victims of male abuse/violence. James is repeatedly accused of being a bad husband (again, by females).

The portrayal of males as sexual/violent abusers of women, particularly domestic abuse/violence perpetrated by a husband against his wife or a father against his daughter, is a common trope in feminist narratives.

It often coincides with the man being portrayed as a drunk and/or unable to control his sexual urgesboth of which are the case here with James.

The revelation about Maria that she is a figment of James's imagination further reinforces the idea that men are just motivated by their sexual desires. Angela accusing James of being motivated by sex after he helps her also reinforces this idea.

[Patola [Linux]]

@Furin I got your point. But I can't agree. First, James is, if anything, repulsed by Maria's sexual behavior, so he's far from someone unable to control his sexual urges. Second, all characters in the game are dysfunctional and that's the appeal. I think everybody can notice that James is not a role model, and the family depicted in there is an exception for regular families (so much that it gets a whole horror story for itself). I don't really see any attempt of emasculation from the script.

[› Furin]

Originally posted by Patola Linux:

James is, if anything, repulsed by Maria's sexual behavior, so he's far from someone unable to control his sexual urges.

And yet he is the one who created her, he allows himself to be led around by her, and he goes out of his way to try and save her multiple times.

When they go to Heaven's Night, Maria asks James if they can stay a moment. Despite James initially wanting to continue looking for Mary, he relents and stays with Maria.

Again, considering Maria is a figment of his imagination that was essentially him giving in to his sexual desires over his desire to see his wife again.

At the hotel, he saves her from being attacked by a monster. She says, "I think you just saved my life back there" to which he responds, "glad I did."

In the hospital, after letting Maria rest and then returning to her, she accuses James of only caring about Mary and tells him he needs to take care of her. He gives no answer.

After confronting her on the rooftop, he has to fight against her. Now granted, he does defeat her, but the very fact that he has to fight her at all shows this is a part of himself he struggles to overcome. Plus, this only happens after Mary's dead.

Originally posted by Patola Linux:

Second, all characters in the game are dysfunctional and that's the appeal. I think everybody can notice that James is not a role model, and the family depicted in there is the exception (so much that it gets a whole horror story for itself).

Be that as it may, there are no positive portrayals of males in this story. Dysfunctional families and familial abuse/murder are central themes.

Originally posted by Patola Linux:

I don't really see any attempt of emasculation from the script.

Here's some moments I would say are indicative of emasculating James:

1. Laura stomping on James's hand while he was trying to reach for the key and then running away laughing.
2. Laura tricking James and mocking him in the hospital
3. Laura and Angela accusing James of not loving Mary
4. James being led around Silent Hill by either Maria or Laura
5. When James and Maria arrive at the side entrance to Heaven's Night, Maria has James try opening the door before smirking and revealing she has a key
6. When James asks Maria why she cares so much about Laura, she says she doesn't know her but feels like it's her job to protect her (implying Mary would be the one protecting Laura, not James)
7. James tries to open the refrigerator on the floor in the hospital but can't. He asks Maria, "You think you could give me a hand?" to which she replies, "Me? You're supposed to be the big man around here. How's a little girl like me supposed to help?" before she then proceeds to help him.
8. Maria says something doesn't feel right, James extends his hand to lead her, Maria is killed shortly after while James watches helplessly

Not to mention the fact that James resented Mary for becoming sick, became a depressed drunk, and killed her rather than being a caring and supportive husband.

The final letter from Mary conveys how Mary still loves James despite all that has happened to them. However, not only might that letter be a figment of his imagination, it is also written from the perspective of her dying as a result of her illness rather than being murdered by James.

[Skulls]

I don't agree that the original is woke but I can appreciate the case Furin laid out. I certainly can't articulate my case as well as he did but I just don't think this game works if everyone is normal and positive. It's also fine that James is tormented for what he did; he's not supposed to be some male role model. To me, the town is supposed to attract messed up people as sort of a personal hell. Just my opinion.

Remake is definitely wokeified though.

[› Furin]

Originally posted by Skulls:

I don't agree that the original is woke but I can appreciate the case Furin laid out. I certainly can't articulate my case as well as he did but I just don't think this game works if everyone is normal and positive. It's also fine that James is tormented for what he did; he's not supposed to be some male role model. To me, the town is supposed to attract messed up people as sort of a personal hell. Just my opinion.

Remake is definitely wokeified though.

I understand where you guys are coming from as well. I just find it extremely suspect that in this "hell" for people who did bad things, the circumstances that brought these people here seemingly all align with a feminist worldview and over the course of the game's events, James is repeatedly emasculated.

If all the bad people were there because they murdered a family member and over the course of the story, they come to terms with what they did and seek forgiveness, I'd understand this is a "purgatory" for those type of people. Or even if this place was just meant to torment and punish those who've killed a family member.

But that isn't the case in this story. Eddie didn't kill a family member and he ends up being killed by James in more senseless violence, Angela never repents and James affirms her beliefs that males cannot be relied on and only hurt her (she asks James if he can heal her and love her but he gives her no answer while also refusing to give her the knife back), and James either dies, leaves Silent Hill still stuck in his own delusions, or with Laura but not the others.

The very fact that James leaves in some endings goes to show it is possible. So this isn't just about punishing evildoers, nor is it just about those who have murdered a family member.

Which just begs the question, why did they choose to make that plotline so prevalent in their game?

[Lordofriva]

I think Furin came to a different conclusion on RPGHQ.com after further debate you should probably inform people here @Furin

[› Furin]

Originally posted by Lordofriva:

I think Furin came to a different conclusion on RPGHQ.com after further debate you should probably inform people here @Furin

Everything written here was written after my most recent post about the game at RPGHQ: https://rpghq.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=191676#p191676

Nothing here is different. The explanation here is more detailed but conveys the same perspective.

[Lordofriva]

I must suffer brain damage or something. Somehow I thought the 14th of Jan was months away.

I better log off for today

[Right Shark]

"Not to mention the fact that James resented Mary for becoming sick, became a depressed drunk, and killed her rather than being a caring and supportive husband."
Ragebait or retarded?
"silent hill 2 is woke and emasculates men because of the idea a man could become a drunk and kill his wife, this would NEVER happen in real life"
Bro wants silent hill 2 to be a game about a nuclear family being happy

[Patola [Linux]]

Yeah, I for one won't stop buying this type of game for such accusations of weakening the family role or emasculating the protagonist. For me particularly that's too far-fetched to weigh against my choice. And it also would restrict too much my choices, the dysfunctional family is a deeply interesting setting that can bring lots of good games (e.g. Resident Evil 7).

I just hope that our woke curators don't just resort to yes/no and give the reasons. It would stop me from buying a game with pronouns or race/LGBT propaganda, but not this.

[CarnageInc.]

Originally posted by Patola Linux:

Yeah, I for one won't stop buying this type of game for such accusations of weakening the family role or emasculating the protagonist. For me particularly that's too far-fetched to weigh against my choice. And it also would restrict too much my choices, the dysfunctional family is a deeply interesting setting that can bring lots of good games (e.g. Resident Evil 7).

I just hope that our woke curators don't just resort to yes/no and give the reasons. It would stop me from buying a game with pronouns or race/LGBT propaganda, but not this.

Who is stopping you from buying any game that is being reviewed in this group? You're being given a curation and info about certain games. What you do with your money and how you spend it, is up to you..
So many of you are overly dramatic and retarded here, it's hilarious and insane.

[Patola [Linux]]

Oh, come on. No one is "stopping me", of course. I'm just saying that some details of the "wokeness" do not concern me as much as pronouns, race fights, lgbt pushing and toxic feminism. And apart from that I'm (probably) not avoiding games flagged as woke.