Ah. Good point. Yeah calculations could be done there.

Hrm... Theorhetically it should be possible to do a similar calculation for Flame Size as Blast Radius. How much additional damage are you doing that you wouldn't normally do at various ranges and upgrade values? What's the average of all those values?

That said... I have little idea of how to calculate blast radius modifiers.

Eh personally I think keeping each weapon and the body upgrade category separate is the way to go. You're still spending money on each area, and that does determine whether you'll be a glass cannon or stone wall.

That said my database already takes the multiplier into account. Each option has a Price and a Multiplier entry. Granted it only encompasses certain upgrades currently, but it's enough to be able to balance the biggest part of Damage vs Firing Speed. Certain upgrades are better suited to analysis by spreadsheet anyways. Or analysis a different way.

Probably going to do something different to investigate the ideal multiplier for blast radius. The way I see it, someone standing x feet from the blast center will take more damage, the issue is measuring that.

Glad to hear it. As for another suggestion: Apply damage bonuses of a weapon to its taunt attacks. Sure that'll outdamage pretty much everything else, but you'll have to hit someone with the taunt to do it. And it gives people a reason to use them.

Originally posted by LordTeague:

I managed to succeed at step 1 for my simple database, which is produce a list of upgrade costs for each weapon in a decent format. Now to produce the comparison query from that. Once I have that it shouldn't be hard to figure out what prices everything should be at to balance everything out.

I've now built a query that gives me a decent comparison of the costs for each weapon. From this I can conclude that without taking costs of ammo into account (using the old data), that the costs for x2 Damage and x2 Firing Speed are roughly equivalent for most weapons, excluding the costs of extra ammo. (Sniper rifles are the exception--for good reason. Sniper Minigun is OP.)

I'm thus going to make the following recommendation: Lower ammo costs for all weapons, but increase Ammo Regen costs. Maybe 2000 for each level of ammo regen, but 200 for most secondary weapons, 500 for most primary weapons, and 350 for all the others. Or something along that line.

I managed to succeed at step 1 for my simple database, which is produce a list of upgrade costs for each weapon in a decent format. Now to produce the comparison query from that. Once I have that it shouldn't be hard to figure out what prices everything should be at to balance everything out.

Originally posted by UbUp - Mr L:

Originally posted by LordTeague:

I'm a math expert myself. Scored a 32 on the Math SAT (I'm pretty sure 36 is the max, and it's very rare to get a 36). As for the +5000 part, that's there because it's in Body Upgrades rather than the weapon's upgrades.

If you can give me a list of what weapons have what base damage prices, I should be able to find a way to calculate how much the other costs should be so the two equal each other. Heck, I might even be able to automate the process with a database or something. I've done something like that before for Lego Dimensions.

We could definitely use your help guys! Imma prepare a thread for some collaborative thinkin with our actuals tools (python) and spreadsheets from database.

Got sidetracked by having bought Subnautica for a bit, did you ever manage to get that thread up? Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Python, but I've built a database before so I can definitely use that.

Also collected a bunch of data on weapon upgrades awhile back, but not sure if costs were changed at all.

I'm a math expert myself. Scored a 32 on the Math SAT (I'm pretty sure 36 is the max, and it's very rare to get a 36). As for the +5000 part, that's there because it's in Body Upgrades rather than the weapon's upgrades.

If you can give me a list of what weapons have what base damage prices, I should be able to find a way to calculate how much the other costs should be so the two equal each other. Heck, I might even be able to automate the process with a database or something. I've done something like that before for Lego Dimensions.

Name: Unnatural Force

Class: Scout

Health: Can't think of a health value, but probably just good enough to get close enough for a shot.

Bot type: Normal

Weapon: Force of Nature

Stats: 500% or more increased knockback force, variable (average) damage bonus, normal reload/firing rate. Weapon spread may be improved slightly at higher levels.

Pros:

Knocks players across the map if they haven't upgraded damage knockback resistance.

Cons:

Does less damage compared to most other bots.

Bot attributes: Knockback resistance is the biggest thing.

CS on UU v0.9.9 needs a nerf, if it hasn't gotten one already. People with CS will always get kills, and you need to be extremely tanky to even survive one strike. Right now the majority of the good builds are CS builds.