[Beta Gyro] Cursor/Crosshair randomly flicks/jumps a very short distance

[76561199558954961]

The gyro seems to move randomly during play, regardless of whether I'm holding the gamepad very still or the gamepad is on a flat surface. In the calibration menu, I've noticed that the gyro will rarely spike to -15ish (maybe also to 15ish, too fast and rare to tell) on the Yaw axis. It may also occur on other axes, but I've only noticed the large spikes on the Yaw so far. Yes, I've calibrated.

Normally, each axis oscillates between 0.1 and -0.1, with the odd -0.2 or 0.2 here and there. Oddly enough, the -15ish spikes seem to occur MUCH less frequently than the flicks in-game, but the flicks seem to always be around the same distance.

The gyro jump is easier to notice when at a game menu with a mouse cursor (KovaaK's, in my case). I have my gyro sensitivity decently high (turning the controller on the Yaw axis about 100 degrees is a 360) and I'll see the mouse cursor jump in a random direction (usually horizontal, but sometimes vertical) about half an inch or so on my screen. Again, this occurs whether the gamepad is being held as still as possible (the cursor doesn't move until this jump happens) or when it's resting on a flat surface.

It seems to happen at fairly random intervals. Sometimes, it happens twice in a row, sometimes it takes a few seconds - and sometimes it doesn't happen for a good 15-20 seconds. I'm not sure if it's my gamepad or Steam, unfortunately, as I haven't been able to find a decent way to test my gyro outside of Steam yet.

I'm using Yaw mode for the beta version of the new Gyro to Mouse mode, but it also seems to happen in the old version of Gyro as Mouse and in Gyro as Joystick.

[aubreyh]

Does the behavior occur in the new "Gyro to Mouse" mode*? (This is separate from As Mouse which is planned to be removed as part of renovation works). Also, let me know what type of controller you are using, and how it is connected (i.e. wired or bluetooth).

*We recently moved to reading hardware sensor time stamps for higher accuracy in non Valve made controllers. These time stamps can occasionally spike, but the new mode takes this into account, whereas the previous mode does not.

[76561199558954961]

Originally posted by aubreyh:

Does the behavior occur in the new "Gyro to Mouse" mode*? (This is separate from As Mouse which is planned to be removed as part of renovation works). Also, let me know what type of controller you are using, and how it is connected (i.e. wired or bluetooth).

*We recently moved to reading hardware sensor time stamps for higher accuracy in non Valve made controllers. These time stamps can occasionally spike, but the new mode takes this into account, whereas the previous mode does not.

Yeah, sorry, what I meant was that I'm using the new "Gyro to Mouse" and it also occurs in the old "Gyro as Mouse" mode and also in at least one of the "Gyro to Joystick" modes.

I'm using a GameSir T4 Kaleid, which is wired. I'm using the gamepad in "DInput" (not DirectInput, it's basically Playstation DualShock 4) mode. I tried in Nintendo Switch mode as well. I also tried at 250hz, 500hz, and 1000hz polling rates (the polling rate is switchable in the GameSir T4k app).

Edit: I downloaded today's update (the one with the patch note that mentions gyro anti-drift being applied to some controllers when it shouldn't be), but the problem still occurs as before the patch. I don't know if that fix was intended for this problem or not, but I haven't seen any huge spikes in the calibration menu. I did see a 0.3 or 0.4 on the Roll axis at one point though. I'll update if I see a large spike.

Edit 2: Also, the flicking occurs even when the gyro deadzone is set to the maximum value of 1 degree, despite me not seeing anything near 1 degree for the axis values in the calibration menu while staring at it for a few minutes.

Edit 3: I noticed that pressing my trigger or shoulder buttons (three of which are bound to Left or Right Mouse Click) while moving the gamepad will sometimes cause the cursor to jump a huge amount (up to almost the entire screen). This is different than the issue I posted about originally and occurs regardless of whether or not Trigger Dampening is enabled. I'm not sure, but it seems like the gyro movement might be paused while the click is sent, then resumes, giving the appearance of a jump. This doesn't seem to happen when I bind one of those buttons to a keyboard key like 'H' or when the button is unbound. Finally, tapping the right trigger (bound to Left Mouse Click on Soft Pull) seems to make the gyro input stutter/lag vs. pressing the right shoulder button (also bound to Left Mouse Click).

[NikNak]

I’m also experiencing this issue as well.

[aubreyh]

Originally posted by Gamepad Gamer Gallantly Gaming:

Originally posted by aubreyh:

Does the behavior occur in the new "Gyro to Mouse" mode*? (This is separate from As Mouse which is planned to be removed as part of renovation works). Also, let me know what type of controller you are using, and how it is connected (i.e. wired or bluetooth).

*We recently moved to reading hardware sensor time stamps for higher accuracy in non Valve made controllers. These time stamps can occasionally spike, but the new mode takes this into account, whereas the previous mode does not.

Yeah, sorry, what I meant was that I'm using the new "Gyro to Mouse" and it also occurs in the old "Gyro as Mouse" mode and also in at least one of the "Gyro to Joystick" modes.

I'm using a GameSir T4 Kaleid, which is wired. I'm using the gamepad in "DInput" (not DirectInput, it's basically Playstation DualShock 4) mode. I tried in Nintendo Switch mode as well. I also tried at 250hz, 500hz, and 1000hz polling rates (the polling rate is switchable in the GameSir T4k app).

I couldn't find one in our closet, so I'll put one on order and see if i can reproduce the issue.

Edit: I downloaded today's update (the one with the patch note that mentions gyro anti-drift being applied to some controllers when it shouldn't be), but the problem still occurs as before the patch. I don't know if that fix was intended for this problem or not, but I haven't seen any huge spikes in the calibration menu. I did see a 0.3 or 0.4 on the Roll axis at one point though. I'll update if I see a large spike.

Edit 2: Also, the flicking occurs even when the gyro deadzone is set to the maximum value of 1 degree, despite me not seeing anything near 1 degree for the axis values in the calibration menu while staring at it for a few minutes.

Edit 3: I noticed that pressing my trigger or shoulder buttons (three of which are bound to Left or Right Mouse Click) while moving the gamepad will sometimes cause the cursor to jump a huge amount (up to almost the entire screen). This is different than the issue I posted about originally and occurs regardless of whether or not Trigger Dampening is enabled. I'm not sure, but it seems like the gyro movement might be paused while the click is sent, then resumes, giving the appearance of a jump. This doesn't seem to happen when I bind one of those buttons to a keyboard key like 'H' or when the button is unbound. Finally, tapping the right trigger (bound to Left Mouse Click on Soft Pull) seems to make the gyro input stutter/lag vs. pressing the right shoulder button (also bound to Left Mouse Click).

That last part makes me suspect it might be an issue with the game's implementation, though I could be wrong!

Some games tend to have issues when swapping back and forth between Keyboard + Mouse and Controller mode, which is a bit beyond what Steam Input can fix as it depends on a developer's implementation.

You could try binding your controller exclusively to Keyboard and mouse binds instead of to a console controller - this will stop the game flicking back and forth between KB+M and Controller modes. This has obvious drawbacks (no analog movement, wrong controller glyphs), but could at least tell us if the issue is with the controller itself as opposed to the game.

[Edit] I apologize. You said Kovaaks.

[aubreyh]

Originally posted by NikkNakk:

I’m also experiencing this issue as well.

Oh damn. Same controller?

[76561199558954961]

Originally posted by aubreyh:

That last part makes me suspect it might be an issue with the game's implementation, though I could be wrong!

Some games tend to have issues when swapping back and forth between Keyboard + Mouse and Controller mode, which is a bit beyond what Steam Input can fix as it depends on a developer's implementation.

You could try binding your controller exclusively to Keyboard and mouse binds instead of to a console controller - this will stop the game flicking back and forth between KB+M and Controller modes. This has obvious drawbacks (no analog movement, wrong controller glyphs), but could at least tell us if the issue is with the controller itself as opposed to the game.

[Edit] I apologize. You said Kovaaks.

Yeah, all of the inputs that are bound on my gamepad are bound to Keyboard/Mouse actions. Everything else is unbound. I appreciate you following up and continuing to look into this (and going as far as to order the gamepad is fantastic - thanks)!

Also, in case I didn't make it clear in my last edit on my previous post, Left Mouse Click on the right shoulder button can cause the cursor to jump during movement via the gyro, but Left Mouse Click on the right trigger can cause the cursor to stutter/freeze AND jump during gyro movement. If it matters, both are always bound to Left Mouse Click.

[nivekii]

I believe I'm experiencing this same issue. Here are some details:

1. Using the new "Gyro to mouse" mode
2. Gyro for the most part feels silky smooth.
3. At very sporadic intervals the mouse cursor/crosshair will jump or skip in some direction.
4. The distance it jumps is fairly low generally, but it seems to vary.
5. For me, it seems to happen when I'm inputting a direction on my left joystick.
6. If I don't input any other buttons and just swing my mouse cursor/crosshair around using gyro, it doesn't seem to jump.
7. I experience it both in the beta and stable builds of Steam.
8. I've been using Counter Strike 2 for testing, but it happens in every game I've tried.
9. If I disable Steam Input and use reWASD, the gyro works fine and there is no skipping or jumping. However, I much prefer using Steam Input as the gyro generally feels way smoother and more responsive than reWASD's implementation, so I hope there's a fix in the future.

And some details on the controllers I've used:

10. I'm using third party Joy-Cons that I picked up about a week ago. They are similar to Nyxi or Binbok ones that were popping up in the last year or so, but the ones I have are just a generic brand off Amazon.
11. After I noticed this jumping/skipping issue with the Joy-Cons, I pulled out my Dualsense to test with that and it worked fine with no issues.

Anyway, I hope this info helps you track down the issue. Playing with the split Joy-Cons feels SO good (only needing to move your right hand to aim instead of using both hands to move a whole controller is seriously a game changer), so I hope this can be resolved. Big thanks in advance for your efforts.

[aubreyh]

I believe I have a fix for this on the way after an extensive rewrite of core systems. Thanks for all the extra reports. It did not seem to be specific to the GameSir T4 Kaleid.

[76561199558954961]

Originally posted by aubreyh:

I believe I have a fix for this on the way after an extensive rewrite of core systems. Thanks for all the extra reports. It did not seem to be specific to the GameSir T4 Kaleid.

Hey, sorry to hear that you had to do so much work to achieve this, but I'm looking forward to trying out the fix. Thanks for your efforts!

Edit: Also, glad to hear my gamepad doesn't need to be replaced haha

[aubreyh]

I did it for you, Gamepad Gamer Gallantly Gaming, I did it for yoou.

[nivekii]

Thanks! I'm always impressed with how fast you devs respond and put out fixes for stuff like this. Even when it's something so niche. Absolute heroes.

[76561199558954961]

Originally posted by aubreyh:

I did it for you, Gamepad Gamer Gallantly Gaming, I did it for yoou.

Well, next time Gabe asks me who should get a raise, you're at the top of the list. I mean, he's yet to ask - but if he does - I got you.

Also, if the patch note, "Fix: Gyro Joystick mode: Core gyro quaternion is updated even when the app requesting it is not focused." was the fix you mentioned, I'm still experiencing the exact same issue 😬.

[aubreyh]

Ahk. I'm sorry. I've been slowly crushing regressions since the rework. Last I looked Dualshock4 was pretty accurate. The only known bug is from switching between layers, which I'm about to look at (I have a good hunch about the problem, and it sounds somewhat related).

Just out of interest - have you overclocked your gyro polling rate? I've not yet done any work to support that, but it's on my list.

[nivekii]

We appreciate you looking into it. All the recent updates have only mentioned Gyro as Joystick or Gyro to Joystick, but the issue we've been experiencing is with the new Gyro to Mouse mode.

I personally haven't overclocked polling rate (not sure how to do that) and don't use any layers.

Dualsense works fine, so since the Dualshock 4 also works it seems like it must just be a problem with third party controllers. Since my controller is different from OPs but we're experiencing what seems like very similar behavior I'm hoping that might make it easier to track down and if there's a fix for one controller it might work for others.

[76561199558954961]

Originally posted by aubreyh:

Ahk. I'm sorry. I've been slowly crushing regressions since the rework. [..]

Just out of interest - have you overclocked your gyro polling rate? I've not yet done any work to support that, but it's on my list.

No worries at all. The T4 Kaleid's software supports 250hz/500hz/1000hz and I run mine at 1000hz. I've tried at all report rates, but that was before the "core gyro quaternion" patch.