Please give us an option to roll back to the previous Steam Input UI, tons of missing and broken features

[cristaloy]

The previous Steam Input UI wasn't perfect: kinda slow, hold layer didn't work, half of the time you couldn't navigate the UI with the controller, sometimes changes didn't save, and many more bugs that I can't remember off the top in my head. But the new Steam Input UI is somehow even more broken: profiles don't most of the time, now you cannot change the light of DS4 and DS controllers, nor the paddles of Elite controllers? No option to modify the sentitivity values of the joystick axis, neither for the anti-deadzones for the outer ring binding, and I'm missing more but I don't want to keep comparing back and forth.

I absolutely love the Steam Input feature, but this totally breaks it for me. I get that the Steam Deck features are still a WIP, but there is no reason to force those features on the destokp client while is still half baked. For now the only option to use the old Steam Input UI is to opt out of betas and use the old Big Picture mode, until that disappears. Please give us an option to roll back to the old UI before you implement the Deck Big Picture in stable Steam. Also, the new UI could get an option to change the size so it doesn't feel so cramped on a monitor.

[LAN021]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

It will probably get fixed at some point, dunno when though, but since it's not actually a highly functional control piece, and the playstation controllers are not the most used thing on PC compared to Xbox, priority for it is probably a bit lower.

What do you mean, "not the most used"? Check this data from 2021, it says that 24% [EDIT: Global average is 24%, not 21%] of all controllers were PlayStation controllers and that's not taking software/hardware emulation into account, or third-party PS4 controllers that use XInput on PC. 24% of 48 million registered controller users is certainly enough for it to be an important consideration. That number was from the end of 2020, too, so it has probably grown since then with the release of the PS5/DualSense.

Początkowo opublikowane przez cristaloy:

It's true that Xbox controllers are used more on PC than PS ones but I think Steam Input is way more used with DS4 and DS controllers since you don't really get many features on the Xbox controllers, like gyro and touchpad.

No, obviously that is a broad and misleading generalization. Saying that you "don't really get many features on the Xbox controllers" is quite simply wrong--you can use all customization features that Steam Input has to offer, which are almost impossible to count. That DS4/DualSense has gyro and touchpad just give them some additional options that not all players use anyway. I'm sorry, but you are completely mistaken here.

[Drex]

Ok soooo the data still supports it's not the most used, 21% is still not even close to the majority. I'm not saying it shouldn't be a consideration but like I was saying the light isn't a major function so it will probably just be a bit but they'll probably get it back I'm sure. I can see why it is nice to have it visible for different layers and configs, kinda wish we could recolor the guide light or something on others, alas maybe on an SC2 one day.

As for your second point I fully disagree and completely agree with cristaloy. If anyone has a good reason to be using Steam Input it's Playstation users. The light, the gyro, and the touchpad are 99% useless on PC otherwise, unless you find one of the rare full playstation compatible games, where as an Xbox control will do it's basic usage just fine without any modification. Frankly I doubt most players are even messing with a lot of that on non PC-centric games. Also the data supports me more on this one since 99% of Playstation users used steam input.

But, the ability to bind extras to those inputs are very nice, especially if the game happens to allow you to mix in kb/m inputs without being a mess sometimes since sometimes you can get a more 'specific' key for something on keyboard than the way the gamepad inputs work. Don't count out Gyro either, the Wii brought it to the masses as a gimmick, but it's very good.

Gyro enhances aiming so much. Though, it's much better on the SC I think with the touchpad on mouse, and/or deck because of the ability to make gyro work on on touch activation, or the touch of the stick on the deck, though nothing else can do that on touch stick thing like the deck does. I miss doing that more but sadly my 2 SCs are both on the fritz a bit in various ways.

But yeah, the light is niche, can be handy but not being an input probably just a bit less important. I am curious how many Xbox pad users are using Elites though. Since the original elite driver can only really duplicate xinput buttons, it really makes it a biiiiiit more useful on Steam.

[LAN021]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

More than expected, but still not the majority

Why does something have to be the majority for it to be considered?

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

I do agree with cristaloy however, there is a far higher reason for people on a playstation controller to use steam input than Xbox. Many people aren't even gonna tweak the basic input stuff much anyway [...]

Do you have any sort of foundation for your assumptions? How do you know how much or how little Steam users use Steam Input to customize their input? Some may just swap basic buttons or invert axes, others might use layers and chorded presses to get the controls they desire and others might use numerous other features. There is absolutely nothing that says that PlayStation controller users have more reasons to use Steam Input simply because they have Gyro and Touchpad customization.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

[...] but keep in mind on a PC, the touch pad and gyro and light are 100% useless with nothing to drive them since 99% of games on PC don't natively know what to do with a Playstation control at all, or just treat it as standard Xinput and ignore the rest of it's extra features that Xbox is missing entirely.

You can customize gyro and touchpad like anything else in Steam Input so it's far from useless, even if the game doesn't support it natively. You can map any XInput or KB/M input to it and the game will process it as anything else.

EDIT: Drex edited his entire post so I'm gonna write more down below. He may even have deleted his old post and replaced it with a new one, for whatever reason.

---

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

Frankly I doubt most players are even messing with a lot of that on non PC-centric games.

Again, do you have some sort of foundation for this? That you do not use Steam Input features doesn't mean that other users do the same.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

Also the data supports me more on this one since 99% of Playstation users used steam input.

A lot of games still don't support DS4 natively so players have to use Steam Input to even get their controllers to work. There is also no way of knowing how many PlayStation controller users use Steam Input for gyro and touchpad specifically--it could just as well be for any other Steam Input feature.

[Drex]

Yes I rewrote it, the forums glitched out on me and made it look like it didn't post then it showed up after I rewrote the dang thing so I deleted one, but annnnyway.

Ok so first off, I'm not saying something shouldn't be considered because it's not the majority of users, but the majority of user ship is generally going to steer the ship to make sure the most core things are usable for the most people. I'm not saying it shouldn't work or shouldn't be there, but since the light is not even an actual input and not on as majorly used of a control I just figured it might take a bit to get to it that's all. There's plenty of other things they still need to clean up as well, I'm sure after the holidays they'll start quickly cranking updates out again, they've put out a LOT of fixes and parity cleanup since this started.

As for the playstation pad features, you're misconstruing what I said about the playstation features being useless. I didn't say they're useless, I said they're useless WITHOUT Steam Input. Without using Steam Input, or some other input tool, the lightbar, touchpad, and gyro, do absolutely nothing on PC, unless you happen to be playing one of the super rare games with full support for it.

As for what I said about basic input changing, yes I do have numbers they're right there in that data, I feel this is more or less accurate enough, this isn't just about Steam Input itself, it's about using controllers in general. Only 17% of Xbox controller users actually USE Steam Input. The rest of those people are not using Steam Input at all, so they're not getting to do more advanced controller alterations, maybe the in game options have a bit but they're not gonna go as hard Steam's does. But on the Playstation controllers, they have a far higher reason to be using Steam's tools, since it activates another otherwise dead part of their controller. The only thing on the Xbox pads that doesn't work out the gate for the average person is the screenshot button, I'm kinda surprised Microsoft didn't use that actually.

Personally I've had a Stadia pad for an extra non-SC controller lately, I kinda wish I could use the two extra buttons on this puppy.

[LAN021]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

As for the playstation pad features, you're misconstruing what I said about the playstation features being useless. I didn't say they're useless, I said they're useless WITHOUT Steam Input. Without using Steam Input, or some other input tool, the lightbar, touchpad, and gyro, do absolutely nothing on PC, unless you happen to be playing one of the super rare games with full support for it.

No, I understood you perfectly. You just added more explanations in your second post, which was more or less the same thing I said. I meant when using Steam Input, not natively, so that may be part of the mix-up. Your wording is a little unclear sometimes and you may actually have explained that part later in your now deleted post. If that's the case, I was mostly agreeing with what you said.

I also noticed that you edited your entire post--or replaced it, rather--while writing that, so I didn't have time to change it for clarification (i.e. based on your possible explanation of the issue below in your deleted post). I didn't edit my post above the line after your edit.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

As for what I said about basic input changing, yes I do have numbers they're right there in that data, I feel this is more or less accurate enough, this isn't just about Steam Input itself, it's about using controllers in general. Only 17% of Xbox controller users actually USE Steam Input. The rest of those people are not using Steam Input at all, so they're not getting to do more advanced controller alterations, maybe the in game options have a bit but they're not gonna go as hard Steam's does. But on the Playstation controllers, they have a far higher reason to be using Steam's tools, since it activates another otherwise dead part of their controller. The only thing on the Xbox pads that doesn't work out the gate for the average person is the screenshot button, I'm kinda surprised Microsoft didn't use that actually.

Actually, it seems like the data is for only one game for a period of four months. The global average for PlayStation controllers is 24%, or was in 2020. It may have increased quite a bit since then with the release of the PS5 and the DualSense. So if it was 24% back then, it could be much higher now.

The sample game may not have had native DS4 support so it was either using Steam Input or not being able to use the controller at all. It doesn't reveal much about Steam Input habits between users with different controllers. The game may be a shooter with fairly extensive in-game controller options, so Xbox controller users might not need Steam Input to begin with. There's no way of knowing the specifics since it's only one game and we don't know which. There's also players who have multiple types of controllers, controller emulation through software/hardware, etc.

You still have no foundation for your claim that PlayStation controller users use Steam Input more frequently simply because of gyro/touchpad support--if that is, indeed, your claim. Steam Input usage is just far too varied between users and doesn't have much to do with what type of controller is being used--it's the player's personal preferences that matters.

Of course, PS4 controller users may use gyro/touchpad customization, depending on their needs and preferences, but saying that this is the only, or primary, reason that they use Steam Input or that they don't use any other functions is completely unfounded (which also goes for the claim that Xbox controller users also don't use Steam Input functions much, which there is no way to measure).

[cristaloy]

Lol this shouldn't be a discussion about whether data says that Sony or Xbox controllers are more popular. Just want a toggle to the old UI man.

[LAN021]

Początkowo opublikowane przez cristaloy:

Lol this shouldn't be a discussion about whether data says that Sony or Xbox controllers are more popular. Just want a toggle to the old UI man.

We admittedly digressed a little, but I don't think there's much more to say on this issue. I hope that Valve has now read the (overwhelmingly negative) feedback that I linked to here (updated with a new thread) and are discussing their options internally. Just adding an option to keep the old layout would be enough and the Steam community would thank Valve for it.

[Drex]

Actually, there is an option for that it's not easily visible. Much like how earlier in the beta we had to add -newbigpicture or -gamepadui to the command line to start it, it's currently the opposite, you need to add -oldbigpicture to the command line

[LAN021]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

Actually, there is an option for that it's not easily visible. Much like how earlier in the beta we had to add -newbigpicture or -gamepadui to the command line to start it, it's currently the opposite, you need to add -oldbigpicture to the command line

Does this revert the Steam Input UI to the old style when accessed from the game library as well?

[Tharon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez LAN021:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Drex:

Actually, there is an option for that it's not easily visible. Much like how earlier in the beta we had to add -newbigpicture or -gamepadui to the command line to start it, it's currently the opposite, you need to add -oldbigpicture to the command line

Does this revert the Steam Input UI to the old style when accessed from the game library as well?

Unfortunately no :(

[★ motherführer ★]

Really tyred, Valve is breaking everything, everything is full of annoying bugs. "Steam stable" has his bugs, and "Steam beta" has his own new bugs. Really need to downgrade to previous version. It's fine release and testing new versions. But allow me to use really stable and well tested older versions. I just want to play Left4Dead2 without freezing, full of bugs. I don't want to deal with bugs playing an unplayable game.

[Tharon]

Valve is downgrading and adding bugs to Steam from 2018. It's getting worse and worse over time.
The latest change to the big UI, turned to the same messy resourge hog used for the Deck, is only the icing on the cake.

[LAN021]

Still no update on this front after more than two months (the update was 16 Nov). I'm starting to lose hope.

What is Valve thinking? Do they not understand that the Steam users who use Steam Input regularly are mainly the ones that have shared their opinions on the new UI and that they almost unanimously think it's worse in every way? Valve have worked hard for several years to make Steam Input what it is today and now they are throwing it all out the window for some retrogressive and barely functional nonsense that they think is modernized and beautified. That the UI was actually completely broken at launch--you had to change a setting to just be able to access it--shows how little they care about the enjoyment of their userbase. There is also no financial benefit in this whatsoever for them, so the whole change is inexplicable and outright irrational. It will only lead to more outcries and pleas for a way to use the old UI.

Going into Big Picture Mode every time you want to change a config is a nuisance. You can at least edit the configs in the game, but I prefer to have BPM turned off usually and I want to be able to edit the configs from the Game Library when I'm in Windows desktop.

Valve can still fix this if they revert to the old Steam Input UI on the stable client, including when accessed from the game library. The new Steam Input UI should only be turned on if the command line is set. They could have a separate command for the UI accessed from the Game Library if they want to. Better yet, they should add these settings to the Steam main settings. The Interface category seems a little full at the moment and I don't think there's a scroll function in the settings window. They could therefore just create a new category called "Interface (2)" and move all the checkbox options there (from "Scale text..." to "Notify me..."). Then add the options "Use the classic Big Picture Mode" and "Use the classic Steam Input Configuration in Game Library". Also a "Start Steam Client maximized" checkbox in Interface and a "Disable the What's New section" checkbox in Library settings.

[LAN021]

Bumping this because of the new update. Valve is now working on a new settings window for the main client and it's basically just a cosmetic update as far as I can tell, which is fine, it's not a disaster functionality- and navigation-wise like the new Steam Input UI. Some Library settings are still missing, but the new settings window is not live yet.

You can now scroll the settings window properly, so that's why I'm again suggesting that Valve add the options I mentioned in the last paragraph in my post above. It would really solve almost everything and would show that Valve care a little about the consumers who make them successful in the first place.

The settings:

• Start Steam Client maximized (Interface)
  
• Use the classic Big Picture Mode (Interface)
  
• Use the classic Steam Input Configuration (Library)
  
• Disable the What's New section (Library)

[Drex]

Just an FYI, theoretically you could do the maximize already, it's a very old windows thing I don't know if it works on Steam I haven't tried, but if you go open your Steam shortcut, on the Shortcut tab, is the "Run:" section, you can select maximized from this. Though I guess these days if you're leaving in the task bar all the time and never launch it from the start menu that may not be so bueno, don't think MS ever thought of that.