Switch Pro Controller button swapping defaults

[Firehawke]

While the beta support works pretty well, I'd like an option to swap A/B and X/Y _by default_ on new, unconfigured games. I think a lot of us consider the button position far more important than the actual button label in-game.

You should also default to letting the screenshot button do screenshots, IMO.

[NeXuS23]

Yeah that would be great and even greater if the Switch itself would support that, because it's the absoulte catastrophe if switching from Xbox/PS4 to Switch and vice versa.

[Firehawke]

Heh. I'm going to probably ruffle some feathers saying this, but I really wish the Dreamcast and x-Box had followed Nintendo's established conventions there; it would have made EVERYONE'S life easier.

[austinp_valve]

Have you tried toggling the "Use Nintendo Button Layout" setting in the controller options? It sounds like this setting does what you want.

[NeXuS23]

Originally posted by Firehawke:

Heh. I'm going to probably ruffle some feathers saying this, but I really wish the Dreamcast and x-Box had followed Nintendo's established conventions there; it would have made EVERYONE'S life easier.

Gravis Joypad, Dreamcast, Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, PS, PS3, PS4 all where before the Switch and the Switch is the one with mirrored A/B/X/Y the older Nintendos did only have A/B (arranged horizontally) and no X/Y so it's clearly Nintendo not following the established standard. The PS may using other symbols, but the positions still match and wasn't messed up.

So Nintendo either should have used their own symbols and no X/Y or simply follow the established standards for ABXY. It makes anyway no sense to mirror and even reverse the natural order of A->B / X->Y to B->A / Y->X i really wonder who had that glorious idea.

It's also the reason i didn't purchase any other Games for the Switch after finishing Zelda (and pressing 10'000 times the wrong buttons), i will only purchase Games for the Switch if either i can purchase a Pro Controller with correct layout or there at least is an option to correct it in system settings.

[Fission Mailed]

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

Gravis Joypad, Dreamcast, Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, PS, PS3, PS4 all where before the Switch and the Switch is the one with mirrored A/B/X/Y the older Nintendos did only have A/B (arranged horizontally) and no X/Y so it's clearly Nintendo not following the established standard. The PS may using other symbols, but the positions still match and wasn't messed up.

lol what, Nintendo had X and Y ever since the SNES.

[Firehawke]

Yeah, SNES had Y/X layout literally 10 years before the Dreamcast (technically the Saturn 3D controller) reversed the button layout and the X-Box followed the DC. I really wish they'd stuck to what was already there.

[NeXuS23]

Originally posted by Fission Mailed:

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

Gravis Joypad, Dreamcast, Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, PS, PS3, PS4 all where before the Switch and the Switch is the one with mirrored A/B/X/Y the older Nintendos did only have A/B (arranged horizontally) and no X/Y so it's clearly Nintendo not following the established standard. The PS may using other symbols, but the positions still match and wasn't messed up.

lol what, Nintendo had X and Y ever since the SNES.

NES has A/B only.
SNES has no Analog Sticks at all, but yeah it had colored ABXY buttons.
N64 has only A/B again
Gamecube has tiny round A with a big round B and curved X/Y around the big round B - That layout has nothing to do with the ABXY standard, it was a proprietary one.
Wii has only an A under a cross.

I had all of them and also still use the Gamecube Controllers (Wavebirds) with the Wii.

So Nintendo is a bit inconsistent and can't be called a standard.

It also would not be an issue if they would stick to their proprietary crap, but the Pro Controllers are like copies of the Xbox Conrollers with messed up ABXY layout, that's where the issue is. And if at least the Pro Controllers would follow the ABXY standard everything would be ok.

I would even purchase a second one if there would be one with correct layout and then probably even purchase some more games for the switch. But till this or at least a solution via settings isn't available, my Switch will only collect dust and that's it.

The ABXY standard is so established since decades that there even are Controllers with buttons without ABXY on it and with all the same colors, people simply know that A is on bottom and Y on top and X left and B right, they don't need to look at it or think about.

[Fission Mailed]

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

Originally posted by Fission Mailed:

lol what, Nintendo had X and Y ever since the SNES.

NES has A/B only.
SNES has no Analog Sticks at all, but yeah it had colored ABXY buttons.
N64 has only A/B again
Gamecube has tiny round A with a big round B and curved X/Y around the big round B - That layout has nothing to do with the ABXY standard, it was a proprietary one.
Wii has only an A under a cross.

I had all of them and also still use the Gamecube Controllers (Wavebirds) with the Wii.

So Nintendo is a bit inconsistent and can't be called a standard.

It also would not be an issue if they would stick to their proprietary crap, but the Pro Controllers are like copies of the Xbox Conrollers with messed up ABXY layout, that's where the issue is. And if at least the Pro Controllers would follow the ABXY standard everything would be ok.

I would even purchase a second one if there would be one with correct layout and then probably even purchase some more games for the switch. But till this or at least a solution via settings isn't available, my Switch will only collect dust and that's it.

The ABXY standard is so established since decades that there even are Controllers with buttons without ABXY on it and with all the same colors, people simply know that A is on bottom and Y on top and X left and B right, they don't need to look at it or think about.

NES had B to the left of A.
Of course SNES had no analog sticks, but then this wasn't what your argument was about.
N64 also had B to the left of A.
The GameCube controller has Y to the left of X, and B to the left of A
The Wii Classic Controller uses Y X B A.
The Wii U Gamepad and Pro Controller use Y X B A.
DS, DSi, 3DS and their variations use Y X B A.

Yes, they've been experimental on some of their controllers, but any ones that use a conventional button layout use the same ones they've had on the SNES.

So, why should they have to change their layout just because you personally are used to the other one? It's perfectly fine for you to prefer Microsoft's, but it by no means is the standard. They (or rather, Sega) wanted to be different on purpose.

[NeXuS23]

Originally posted by Fission Mailed:

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

NES has A/B only.
SNES has no Analog Sticks at all, but yeah it had colored ABXY buttons.
N64 has only A/B again
Gamecube has tiny round A with a big round B and curved X/Y around the big round B - That layout has nothing to do with the ABXY standard, it was a proprietary one.
Wii has only an A under a cross.

I had all of them and also still use the Gamecube Controllers (Wavebirds) with the Wii.

So Nintendo is a bit inconsistent and can't be called a standard.

It also would not be an issue if they would stick to their proprietary crap, but the Pro Controllers are like copies of the Xbox Conrollers with messed up ABXY layout, that's where the issue is. And if at least the Pro Controllers would follow the ABXY standard everything would be ok.

I would even purchase a second one if there would be one with correct layout and then probably even purchase some more games for the switch. But till this or at least a solution via settings isn't available, my Switch will only collect dust and that's it.

The ABXY standard is so established since decades that there even are Controllers with buttons without ABXY on it and with all the same colors, people simply know that A is on bottom and Y on top and X left and B right, they don't need to look at it or think about.

NES had B to the left of A.
Of course SNES had no analog sticks, but then this wasn't what your argument was about.
N64 also had B to the left of A.
The GameCube controller has Y to the left of X, and B to the left of A
The Wii Classic Controller uses Y X B A.
The Wii U Gamepad and Pro Controller use Y X B A.
DS, DSi, 3DS and their variations use Y X B A.

Yes, they've been experimental on some of their controllers, but any ones that use a conventional button layout use the same ones they've had on the SNES.

So, why should they have to change their layout just because you personally are used to the other one? It's perfectly fine for you to prefer Microsoft's, but it by no means is the standard. They (or rather, Sega) wanted to be different on purpose.

Check the Gamecube one again because this is wrong and is as i decribed.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/WaveBird_and_receiver.png/635px-WaveBird_and_receiver.png

And Wii Classic Controller, WiiU as the Switch Pro Controller came after Xbox/Xbox360/PS/PS3, they tryed to copy it, but messed up the established standards.

Also don't forget that the Xbox360/Xbox One Controllers are also used on PC

And even the Gravis GamePad released in 1991 (3 years before Sega Saturn) and probably the first IBM PC compatible Joypad used ABXY. https://i.warosu.org/data/vr/img/0037/94/1486856197865.jpg

It's also certainly not only me that is used to it. It's more like more then 90% of all people using Controllers are used to it. I'm also cetainly not alone with that issue, as the Switch came the issue exploded because the Switch now also has Games normally only available on Xbox/PC.

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/nz57d7/nintendo-really-needs-to-let-you-remap-buttons-on-switch

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-did-nintendo-switch-use-the-opposite-button-assignment-from-psn-xbox.4188/page-5

https://nintendoradar.com/forums/topic/9113-let-us-remap-buttons/

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/who-exactly-is-responsible-for-switching-a-b-button-positions-vs-nintendo.1129703/

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-A-and-B-button-switched-on-the-Nintendo-Switch-when-compared-with-the-PlayStation-or-Xbox

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/64r4kh/switching_between_consoles_button_mapping/

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/189707-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/75079168

...ad infinitum

Also something becomes a established standard if it exists unchanged long enough, just like with your TV remote where the red round button on top 99.99% is the power button.


   Y
X   B is the established standard since 1991 ;)
   A


EDIT: Looks like there finally is a Solution for the mess ... also useful for PC:
http://www.mayflash.com/Products/NINTENDOWiiU/MAGIC-NS.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/6sgcxc/mayflash_magicns_review/

[Fission Mailed]

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

And even the Gravis GamePad released in 1991 (3 years before Sega Saturn) and probably the first IBM PC compatible Joypad used ABXY. https://i.warosu.org/data/vr/img/0037/94/1486856197865.jpg

Don't worry, I noticed you said that.
Not sure whether or not it came out before the NA SNES as both were in 1991.
However, the Super Famicom (Japanese SNES) came out in 1990. Guess which format it used?

The Gravis gamepad is just a copy of the Super Famicom controller.
This is fine, as PC controllers back then often imitated whatever console was dominant at the time.

Sure, they changed the letter and button colors around to be different.
Or, to spin it your way, they "tryed[sic] to copy it, but messed up the established standards."

Like I said, Nintendo isn't as popular anymore so people may have started with other consoles. But that doesn't mean they have to change what they did first.

[CÆÐR]

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

Yeah that would be great and even greater if the Switch itself would support that, because it's the absoulte catastrophe if switching from Xbox/PS4 to Switch and vice versa.

The

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

Gravis Joypad, Dreamcast, Xbox, Xbox360, Xbox One, PS, PS3, PS4 all where before the Switch and the Switch is the one with mirrored A/B/X/Y the older Nintendos did only have A/B (arranged horizontally) and no X/Y so it's clearly Nintendo not following the established standard. The PS may using other symbols, but the positions still match and wasn't messed up.

So Nintendo either should have used their own symbols and no X/Y or simply follow the established standards for ABXY. It makes anyway no sense to mirror and even reverse the natural order of A->B / X->Y to B->A / Y->X i really wonder who had that glorious idea.

It's also the reason i didn't purchase any other Games for the Switch after finishing Zelda (and pressing 10'000 times the wrong buttons), i will only purchase Games for the Switch if either i can purchase a Pro Controller with correct layout or there at least is an option to correct it in system settings.

You think Nintendo should change their iconic (and copied) layout to match the reversed anti-Nintendo style that its competitors use? The reason the current style exists is becuz Sega took Nintendo's Super NES style and mirrored the ABXY to be not-Nintendo, then Microsoft took Sega's design since they were working together for a while. On the other side, Sony's PlayStation controller is just a Super NES controller with a grip instead of being flat, since they originally workt together as well. They don't use ABXY, but the Confirm and Cancel are still in the same place as Nintendo. However, Sony of America desided to be anti-Nintendo and change the Confirm and Cancel buttons despite it not making sense to do so. I think they started that for the PS2, cuz my American PS1 games followed the Nintendo style.

The Super NES was discontinued in Japan in 2003, and the Nintendo DS was released in 2004, so Nintendo's ABXY design was only gone for a single year.

Me, having only owned a Super NES, N64, GC, PS1, and Japanese PS2, I was couldn't buy an American PS3 becuz the swapt buttons drove me crazy. It even messt up actions beside the Confirm and Cancel. In Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix for my Japanese PS2, Jump and Attack were next to eachother in a logical way so I could attack midair. However, in the American version, that was ruind. Thus I've never playd Kingdom Hearts 2... :/

[Yoda]

WTF?

[MukiEX]

1. The Gravis Gamepad, the only device released near (and AFTER) the SNES, did not have A/B X/Y. That's a straight-up lie. The buttons had no letters on them and they were designated buttons 1-4. It's hard to find a Gravis manual from 30 years ago but here's a manual from a game released the same year: http://legacy.3drealms.com/tech/manuals/Wacky%20Wheels.pdf

Page 7 clearly designates the button 1-4 standard, and that button naming scheme is used TO THIS DAY in Windows. Just look at your "Set up USB Game Controllers" window.

2. So the face button arrangement was established in 1990 in Japan, 1991 in the USA, and precedes pretty much every other console release.

   X
Y    A is the established standard since 1990 =P
   B

3. Sega didn't do XYAB until 1999, close to a decade after SNES, and Microsoft didn't do it until 2001. However, Sega's XYAB predecessor, the 6-button Genesis pad, had an XYZABC arrangement in 1993, 2 years after SNES. This is where the Saturn, and eventually Dreamcast arrangements came from. It's kind of strange that the SNES was YXBA and not ZYBA, come to think of it. They didn't have a C and Z to shave off. They did get a Z button and a C stick with the GameCube, though. Kinda funny.

4. All this said, I kinda just wanna swap the buttons in Steam just like EVERY OTHER SWITCH CONTROLLER USED ON PC ALREADY DOES AUTOMATICALLY.

5. While Nintendo was definitely the first, it's easy to understand why their layout didn't become standard:

- They didn't use it for the SNES's successor, the N64, or THAT system's successor, the GameCube (well they did, but the GameCube didn't have a grid button layout). Heck, it wasn't even Standard on Wii (the "Classic Controller" was mostly meant for the Virtual Console and 3rd party ports), so there's like an 11-year gap between launches of systems that had this layout in its pack-in controller (SNES -> Wii U)

- Nintendo's always been super-♥♥♥♥♥ with their layout. Aside from the N64/GameCube generation, Nintendo can't even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ decide whether they want Y/B or B/A to be their default attack/jump buttons for their own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ games. Smash Bros. Ultimate and U/3DS really should have used Y for special and B for attack, just like they did with the Switch from Super Mario Bros. to Super Mario World. OR, they should have, way back when, made the SNES layout look like this:

   Y
B    X
   A

It would have made way more sense and the next 20 years of emulated games wouldn't have felt really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ weird on other systems. This is ESPECIALLY a problem for Nintendo, who ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ REFUSES to provide other layouts in their own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ games for the face buttons.

[「Hellshake」]

Originally posted by austinp_valve:

Have you tried toggling the "Use Nintendo Button Layout" setting in the controller options? It sounds like this setting does what you want.

Awesome, I didn't know this was possible.