Romans 10:14 KJV

[[H.E.] ✟ GrandEmperorVandheer ✟]

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

[Eshman]

Romans 16:17-20 NKJV

17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord [d]Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and [e]simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Please don't cherry-pick--many have attempted that particular trick before and I have no doubt there will be many after you. There are many among this group who are far more educated in theology than I and it's just not worth your time to stir up strife here if that's what you're after. I'm certain others will chime in shortly.

[Mr_C_]

The basic message, prima facie, is regarding getting the Gospel to the Jews.

Verses 1-5:

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

This is the Law vs. Grace setup. It all ties in together--each verse from 2 onward begins with the word "for", making it a single thought.

Then begins a counter-argument against the Law:

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

The "word of faith" being grace, apart from the Law, culminating in the foundation of grace through faith:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Again with all the "fors". The answer follows:

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

"They" in verse 14 means the Jews, which is the group Paul started this line of reasoning about. "They" in verse 15 refers to those bringing the message of grace to the Jews.

Finally, the chapter refers directly to the jews again:

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

For the unaware, "Esaias" is Isaiah--a Jewish prophet sent to the Jewish people.

Could this have a universal application? Quite possibly, but a direct reading is that Paul laments the status of the salvation of the Jewish people because of their "works righteousness" mindset. Anything else is implied theology, and possibly eisegesis rather than exegesis.

[Legion]

Am I missing something? Was there a disagreement or discussion somewhere else?

[Mr_C_]

Originally posted by Legion:

Am I missing something? Was there a disagreement or discussion somewhere else?

I dunno, but I decided to deconstruct the chapter anyway. Scripture should be read in context, and too much of the time it's not, like Eshman said.

[Theophilus]

I love the book of Romans, my Bible study just started going through it last Tuesday.

Personally, my favorite chapter is chapter 5, with the comparisons to Adam and whatnot, and it really drives home how we are saved by grace through Jesus Christ. I also love Galatians for the same reason, it's sort of like a condensed version of Romans.

God's grace is so great, I cannot comprehend it it is so great!

[CrEaTiVe ✞ Jesus Saves ✞]

There is no disagreement. Grand is just posting Scriptures :). Sometimes us Bible nerds like to post more context, or have had others use scriptures in the past to "make a point" or agenda. I do not think this is true with Grand, He posts scriptures and i love it, even sometimes i'll post more of the verses, but we all love more context. I can see how Eshman's post comes across as accusatory a little, not saying that is the heart behind it but... I only posted this because i was confused at first as well when i read the reply :)

1 Corinthians 13 is always good to keep in mind <3 God bless you all!

[Legion]

Ok. I was just wondering because of the 1st comment form Eshman. Didn't understand what he meant by cherry picking verses so I was curious.

[Eshman]

When folks single out a particular verse out of context that isn't a commonly known/frequented one and simply post it as a discussion starter it seems to be more of a cherry-picking thing than anything else. If that wasn't the case then my bad but that was why/how my response was originally constructed then I gradually softened it a bit towards the end. If it's earlier in the day I tend to be a bit gruff (due to aches/pains & not enough caffeine yet--apologies but can't be helped much just a fact of life).

[Dario]

Our circumstances do not excuse our sin.

[Eshman]

It's not often I get reminded how much more youthful folks are here on this forum and Steam in general. How much I am reminded that time's hourglass flips both ways in God's hands. That some day the words on these mere pages may be read by others searching for simple truths we now hold so dear to our hearts. Let me just say that never has a simple phrase resonated the Biblical truth of cutting words in such an eviscerating manner. It is such a simple thing to type words on a forum to what are essentially strangers or people you probably may never really get to meet in person. Yet the Holy Spirit knows no distance and knows exactly what needs to be said to get someone to pay attention. Even if it seems to be something so simple to you it may mean something completely different or change someone else's entire world outlook. I wish there were another way for me to explain this in words that were far more eloquent than simply typing but sadly this is all I have. Never stop being courageous enough to simply stand and be that sword.

[Mr_C_]

Originally posted by CrEaTiVe ✞ Jesus Saves ✞:

There is no disagreement. Grand is just posting Scriptures :). Sometimes us Bible nerds like to post more context, or have had others use scriptures in the past to "make a point" or agenda. I do not think this is true with Grand, He posts scriptures and i love it, even sometimes i'll post more of the verses, but we all love more context. I can see how Eshman's post comes across as accusatory a little, not saying that is the heart behind it but... I only posted this because i was confused at first as well when i read the reply :)

1 Corinthians 13 is always good to keep in mind <3 God bless you all!

Context is always good. And my previous posts weren't intended as anything other than a "Bible lesson".

The older I get and the more studying I do makes me think when someone posts a snippet, "I don't think that means what you think that means." Much of Scripture can have a universal application for us, but a good bit of it doesn't--Leviticus, anyone? Historical context plays a major role in that.

But even Leviticus can point toward God's perfection and His Son, Jesus Christ.