Masturbation a sin?

[Kaiyal]

While many automatically jump to the conclusion of yes. I want to make people think about this a bit. Now it is most certainly and widely known that lust and adultery are a sin and should understandably be rejected in our lives with God's Grace. Yes if you masturbate while lusting or have lustful imaginations during masturbation you are sinning but the act itself is what im questioning. As nowhere in the bible is masturbation adressed which begs the question, is it evil? My conclusion is that it isn't part of God's plan for sex but also doesnt seem to be evil in and of itself. It just isn't necessarily healthy and can become a habit and can hinder abstinance if not handled with self control. Whats your guyses stance on the issue im curious.

[[CG]Chaplain Bradley]

Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. Period.

See: Romans 14:23

[Michael Myers -超自然]

i think yes

[Mr_C_]

Originally posted by Kaiyal ✞Jesus Saves:

While many automatically jump to the conclusion of yes. I want to make people think about this a bit. Now it is most certainly and widely known that lust and adultery are a sin and should understandably be rejected in our lives with God's Grace. Yes if you masturbate while lusting or have lustful imaginations during masturbation you are sinning but the act itself is what im questioning. As nowhere in the bible is masturbation adressed which begs the question, is it evil? My conclusion is that it isn't part of God's plan for sex but also doesnt seem to be evil in and of itself. It just isn't necessarily healthy and can become a habit and can hinder abstinance if not handled with self control. Whats your guyses stance on the issue im curious.

Do you seriously believe you can masturbate without lust? Really?

I would submit to you that, aside from a dreaming period during sleep, you can't even get an erection without lust being involved.

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you've said. Masturbation can lead to erectile dysfunction, for what it's worth. But the "hinder abstinance if not handled with self control" sounds like an attempt to minimize the issue and excuse the activity.

[Kaiyal]

Im in a state of metaxis bro thats why im asking the question, most times im like dont masturbate but i do slip and fail

[Mr_C_]

Originally posted by Kaiyal ✞Jesus Saves:

Im in a state of metaxis bro thats why im asking the question, most times im like dont masturbate but i do slip and fail

I see. I thought you were attempting to rationalize the issue away, which I've seen over and over in the secular world.

[Kaiyal]

Nah I try to except when im wrong something God has blessed me with as i used to be 'always' right. Im just young in my faith (2 years) so im still learning.

[jDog]

I may be in the minority here - I am a Christian, have been for many years. With all repect and seriousness; I do not think masterbation is a sin. Lust is a sin, but not masterbation. As long as those can remain separate, I think it's okay to do.

But, how can lust and masterbation be separate? Well, as a married man, I can think about my wife - which is not lustful.

What about someone who is not married? I think that, as long as you don't think about a real person that you know to lust after them, it's still okay to masterbate. In other words, if you think of a made up person in your mind, I don't think that is wrong.

Here is why I believe this. God made us to be sexual creatures. We each havre a gender - sex is part of what we are. Attraction is not wrong, I don't believe. If we find the idea of sex with another person arousing, is that not part of fulfulling God's desire that we seek out a mate?

I think we, as in Christians, have been overly cautious about attraction and sex. Those things were made by God and they are good things, if done in their proper place and season. The perversion of attraction is lust - which I define as thinking of another person as an object to act upon, instead of as a person who is made in the image of God.

tl;dr
I think God made us to desire sex. Masterbation can be useful to relieve sexual desire. If it is done without lust toward another person, it is not a sin. Attraction and lust are different things, lust is not always involved in sexual matters.

[[CG]Chaplain Bradley]

Originally posted by jDog:

Well, as a married man, I can think about my wife - which is not lustful.

You seem to have already convinced yourself otherwise, but actually, yes, it is lust -- even if it is your wife. That is like saying rape isn't rape, as long as it is your wife that you are raping. Or stealing isn't stealing, if you're stealing from your business partner.

[jDog]

Originally posted by Bradley:

Originally posted by jDog:

Well, as a married man, I can think about my wife - which is not lustful.

You seem to have already convinced yourself otherwise, but actually, yes, it is lust -- even if it is your wife. That is like saying rape isn't rape, as long as it is your wife that you are raping. Or stealing isn't stealing, if you're stealing from your business partner.

Bradley - I'm really quite astonished at this! I think of lust as objectifying someone in my mind, or desiring them in a way that is contrary to my marriage. If God's design is for one man and one woman to enjoy each other, how could it be lust to find my wife desireable? Or to think of having intercourse with her?

I believe your examples are all wrong! Thinking sexually about your wife is not comparable or rape or stealing. How could it be? It more comparable to protecting someone from rape, or increasing sales from a business partner. That is, thinking of my wife in a sexual way is what I am supposed to do. It's not the only way I think of her, but it is one way.

[Брэдкор]

Originally posted by Bradley:

Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. Period.

See: Romans 14:23

This. End of story.

Originally posted by jDog:

Originally posted by Bradley:

You seem to have already convinced yourself otherwise, but actually, yes, it is lust -- even if it is your wife. That is like saying rape isn't rape, as long as it is your wife that you are raping. Or stealing isn't stealing, if you're stealing from your business partner.

Bradley - I'm really quite astonished at this! I think of lust as objectifying someone in my mind, or desiring them in a way that is contrary to my marriage. If God's design is for one man and one woman to enjoy each other, how could it be lust to find my wife desireable? Or to think of having intercourse with her?

I believe your examples are all wrong! Thinking sexually about your wife is not comparable or rape or stealing. How could it be? It more comparable to protecting someone from rape, or increasing sales from a business partner. That is, thinking of my wife in a sexual way is what I am supposed to do. It's not the only way I think of her, but it is one way.

Except you're not thinking about your wife for each other's pleasure, love, etc. You're thinking about your wife for your own selfish pleasure and yours alone.

[Subiectus]

Genesis 38:9-10

But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.

Not directly about masturbation, but you probably get the idea. Maybe it's far fetched, but I think semen is not meant to be wasted on purpose. :)

[Subiectus]

Originally posted by Zano DEUS VULT:

I believe the sin here is having sex with his dead brother's wife only for pleasure. That is, purposely not giving his dead brother's wife children, which he was expected to provide, so that they won't inherit things.

But stay away from masturbating anyway, because it can mess up your body and mind in addition to your soul.

I agree. it was a bit far fetched like I said.

[[CG]Chaplain Bradley]

Originally posted by Zano DEUS VULT:

I believe the sin here is having sex with his dead brother's wife only for pleasure. That is, purposely not giving his dead brother's wife children, which he was expected to provide, so that they won't inherit things.

Correct. Though not saying the other WASN'T sinful, the greater sin of the two was intentionally "pulling out" of the obligation to continue his brother's heritage.

[jDog]

Friends and brothers, I think you're making a grave mistake. Just because something is pleasurable, doesn't make it sinful.

Let me throw out a hypothetical: suppose in the act of intercourse, the woman wants to stimulate herself with her hand. Is that masterbation, and therefore sinful? What if a couple enjoy watching each other masterbate before sex, is that sinful?

I believe God made us to enjoy sexual fulfillment. In fact, I think he commanded it. 1 Corinthians 7 tells us not to deprive each other of sex, so that Satan will not have a way to tempt us. What else can we conclude from this - sexual release reduces temptation. But, what if intercourse isn't possible, are couples really supposed to suppress their sex drives rather than masterbate? I think that would give Satan an excellent ground from which to tempt.

Here is what I want to avoid - the idea that the human sex drive is wrong and needs to be suppressed. God made us sexual beings, and it's good that we enjoy that aspect of our creation. I agree that lust is wrong, a perversion of our original nature. But, lust and masterbation are different things. If a Christian is able to masterbate to relive sexual desire and thwart the temptation if Satan, then how can it be considered a sin?

I believe masterbation can "come of faith." As long as it is done with God's design for our bodies in mind. How you ask? By rejoicing in the love of the spouse, or by looking forward to the time when God will give a spouse. There does not have to be immoral fantasy involved.

I do not agree that masterbation harms your body. In fact, many sex therapist (including Christians) will prescribe masterbation for the female if she is having a difficult time with intercourse.

I know I'm in the minority in this group. I hope you all will prayerfully reconsider, and I will do the same. It is a sin to violate conscience, so if you believe masterbation is a sin, it is for you. However, I think there is great freedom in Christ. And a lot of harm had been done to His name by overzealous Christians who have so many rules.

[Mr_C_]

This is a really interesting conversation, I think, because there is some tension between what is "lawful" with one's spouse vs. the concept of lust.

As a sex addict, who attends meetings and has been in therapeutic sessions for it for years, I think I can say that the concept of masturbation without having an object to lust after is nearly impossible. Without lust (desire), there is no erection outside of REM sleep. I really don't know if any man can honestly say he can masturbate without having a person to lust after; I have found that just physical stimulation won't maintain an erection without the lust object. Like I said, I've had years of personal research in this.

Having said that, it's my understanding that the sin of adultery is one of the actions that can follow covetousness (another being theft). I believe that's why Jesus equated lust with adultery; you've already coveted the woman through your lust, so the intention of adultery is in your heart.

However, how can a man have an adulterous relationship with his own wife? She's already HIS wife, and not someone else's wife.

No, I believe the primary issue is objectification. If a man objectifies his wife as just a body to satisfy his lusts, this is a personal sin against his wife, who also bears the image of God. Objects don't have feelings or personality; they make for easy relationships because there's no work involved in maintaining it. If you want to end a relationship with an object, you just put it away. A man won't do things for an object like Christ did for the church (Eph. 5:25), like die on its behalf so that it may live. Doesn't even make sense thinking about it.

It all goes back to the intentions in your heart. This isn't intended as an indictment against either side of the argument; just my own observations and thoughts.