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Origineel geplaatst door Mindzen:

It's a released title at cost. There is no such thing as Early Access. Access is Access. This game was released exactly when the developers chose to release it in the state it is in. They didn't release it Early. They released it when they chose to release it.

To steal from George Carlin, there is no such thing as pre heating an oven. It's either heated or not. There is no such thing as Early access. It's released or not.

It's 2025, and people are still falling for this psyop developers use to justify releasing .. at a cost ... an unfinished product.

You are also being played in another way. If you bought this game, you are an investor. You literally help fund the development of this unfinished game, yet you will NEVER get a financial return on your investment.

You are also being used as a beta tester without being compensated for it. You are providing a service to the developers, and had to pay THEM to do it.

For all of you who regurgitate the cope of Early access talking points, you are being played multiple ways. Not only did you pay for a released broken product, not only did you invest without a return on your investment, not only did you pay to become a beta tester ... you have became a gatekeeper for the very company that that has done all of the above to you.

This is called Stockholm syndrome. I know its embarassing to suddenly realize how bad you have and are getting played, but stop with the Early access excuses. There is no such thing as EA, its a mind trick.

Be better ... and smarter.

Interesting statement from an individual who doesn't own said product.

I'll give you some credit, your post was well articulated. And I do understand why you've made the post. Far too many companies do indeed take advantage of consumers and base it on the "Early Access" title. I wouldn't say consumers are being "played", as you stated.

Early Access, while again, I understand your point, does indeed exist. It's been one of Steam's best innovative ideas.

Take Baldur's Gate 3 for example. 2 years 10 months within Early Access. Alot of us thoroughly enjoyed our time(lots of time I might add). Helping to develop the Game, provide feedback on whats good, whats bad etc.

Lets talk about sales. Early Access - BG3 sold just over 2.5 million.
As your post is regarding Early Access, I won't talk about post-sales. We all know how successful BG3 was and we all know the reasoning behind that. That's right - Early Access.

For some games - Early Access works. With the right playerbase, Gaming Studio, Early Access is the perfect path for game development. Early Access was a path players could invest into(as you rightly point out - We are investors), and work with the Developers to help create the best Baldur's Gate in it's franchise.

"there is no such thing as pre heating an oven" - There is. Ask Gordon Ramsay or any Chef. You pre-heat an oven to maintain the right temperature. Case in point - If you do not pre-heat a pizza oven, and cook it straight away, your pizza will be undercooked and take longer. So again - Factually, you're incorrect.

"You are also being used as a beta tester without being compensated for it" - Wrong for a couple of reasons. There's a few stages of game development. Beta Testing would be closer to release. Or a 1.0 release. For EVO - They're in Alpha Game Development currently.

Without being compensated? - On the store, through many videos. Early Access has been explained. So when consumers have paid for their Early Access product, access is there whenever you want to load in and enjoy the experience.

We often go by $1 per hour. Whatever your currency is. And so. If a product costs $30. We would expect to inherit 30 hours of Gameplay. $30 is the average price for Early Access products on Steam at the moment. I feel as a consumer, that's a fair price point.

So if I were to inherit 30 hours of Gameplay for that product, myself as a consumer would be happy. I've gotten my money's worth, and if I achieve more gameplay hours, that's a bonus.

So your argument that consumers aren't being compensated is incorrect. As yes, consumers are being compensated for the amount of hours they experience. Early Access or not.

Again, going back to Baldur's Gate 3 within Early Access. Ask consumers about their 2 years and 10 months within EA. Ask them how many hours they got compensated for. I can hazard a guess. Most consumers would've achieved at least 100 during nearly 3 years. And that's pre-1.0 launch.

"yet you will NEVER get a financial return on your investment" - I'm unsure on this comment. When buying a Gaming Product. Are you someone that expects a financial return? - When you load up your favourite game - Fortnite - Do you expect Tim Sweeney or Epic to email you saying "Thank you so much for playing Fortnite! In return, we'll be compensating you for your time!".

That's not how the Gaming Industry works. However - I will concede Epic do indeed have the Epic Rewards system, when buying products you get a tiny bit of money back. That's a Rewards Incentive. Not a Product Incentive. Steam has a similar system with their points system. Someone can offer you a clown emoji, and in return, you are compensated some points.

To your point, if you were to purchase Grand Theft Auto VI - Would you expect a financial return after investing $100? You would probably say yes. Most consumers would invest in the product just to experience it.

When you pay for a paragliding experience. You pay for the experience. You get compensated for it. You don't expect to be financially rewarded for taking part. That's just not how life works. So you're incorrect.

"It's 2025, and people are still falling for this psyop developers use to justify releasing .. at a cost ... an unfinished product." - This is a fascinating statement. A "psyop" as you state is a pretty interesting comment to say the least.

Some companies do indeed take advantage of consumers during Early Access - Path of Exile 2 and GGG is a great example of this. Early Access - No Roadmap. No class cadence. Horrendously horrible and FOMO obsessed store.

However, the Forum you're in. And the company you are talking about. Has provided a roadmap. Has provided content. Has provided communication when missing a deadline.

Early Access is an unfinished product. It's clearly highlighted in many areas within Steam. On the Store of every Early Access product, there are clearly "Early Access" information which highlights where the product is, how long the product will be in EA, and what the Game will be like, once it is indeed, a finished product.

To summarise:

Again. I do see why you've written your post. But you seem to lack any factual context, rather... you've made your post into a personal attack on the Early Access system. A system which has proven that it works. And consumers love being apart of it.

Consumers can choose to buy a BMW. I can choose to buy an Audi R8 2019 RS Edition. You can choose to buy a Mini Cooper. Anyone can easily argue which has better value. Which you will get compensated the most for. And which has the most value to sell, if said consumer, wants to sell.

That doesn't mean your chosen vehicle is bad. It means your chosen vehicle, is valued by you. And that YOU will get the most out of it.

And so - With EVO - Consumers can indeed purchase it. Based on the information they've been given. And based on their own experiences, they can judge whether they are being compensated for their purchase. Afterall, all content within Early Access is part of the Early Access price point. So by the time 1.0 releases - Most consumers would've almost certainly achieved more hours than what they paid for.

If you'd like, you can share your post with Gabe Newell and his Team to discuss the Early Access program. See if you can come up with any new innovations. However, there's currently no need. As it works well.

Sure - Some companies will absolutely take advantage of the Early Access program. But thats upto you as a consumer to outweigh the positives and negatives and choose whether you want to invest straight away, or wait until the product is fleshed out abit more.

EVO - As you stated. As an unfinished product. Noone is being forced to pay for the product. You can choose to wait until the product is at 1.0 and purchase it then. Does no harm to the community at all. However, if you're someone that likes to invest in unfinished products, like to help create a positive community, likes to help develop a Game(Hey, maybe even come up with an idea that gets put into a game - which is usually the case during development), then absolutely invest in the product and be a part of Game Development.

Gaming is a luxury. And should not warrant personal attacks, based on systems that work.

Thanks for your post. Have a great week ✅

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It's pretty inexcusable how they forced through all the big game-breaking changes and then basically permanently shelved all the actual stuff we wanted out of the combat update. The one update that was supposed to add agency to the combat took away what little agency the system gave you (where you chose to focus your combat)

did you "Install Default Secure Boot Keys" in the BIOS ?

Feel free to check my whole inventory. I don't accept coupons or discounts.
1:1
Same set (this game) trades. On dups that I have and unowned cards.

1:1+1
Same set (this game) trades. You can choose any cards in my inventory and give me a card from the same set plus another item. The plus item is a compensation. Because after the trade, I will likely end up with duplicate cards or random cards, It doesn't help at all in my crafting badge process.
The plus item can be:
gems (25 or above)
steam emoji (marketable and tradeable)
steam background (marketable and tradeable)
another random card that you don't need anymore

1:2
Cross set trades, you can pick a card and give me any two cards with equal or higher market value.

yeah, nvm, fixed it, there was a problem with a translating script, maybe some variables are the same and they aren't compatible

Origineel geplaatst door Hominghead:

For me, Z2 is seemingly missing the secret room tiles that Z1 had, at least i haven't seen any yet?
The room design just doesn't seem that good in Z2
So, i guess Z1 for me, might go back to play it again

SO I DIDNT MAKE THAT UP RIGHT? cause i wasnt sure if it was that game?? (playing a lot of rogue likes and oldschool-style shooters) if it was there i miss it... i guess now they have the blue stuff to find... but lets be real...

i alwas wonder when people playing games like that with sound. i get it for bosses or if you are in an area and it gets hard and you need to concentrate (in dota i CANT listen to music because of that)

but i always listen to music or sometimes even podcasts so i dont even hear the blue stuff, its more annoying than helpful

so far i would say: generally speaking, without nostalgia part 2 is better. also that the ziggurat is on top makes much more sense, considering the higher the level the more rooms? :D

the bosses in 1 were definitely NOT ENOUGH and they were BORING. they not the strongest now. but you can make mistakes, like pressing wrong button for healing, loosing health before the boss fight, or wanna shield up with the one hero but miss the moment it ends and nearly die :D but also the bosses are interesting (never too hard, they COULD be harder, but im kinda happy that the end of 30 min doesntend on a way too hard boss)

on the normal enemy desing.. we have more now... but it takes time to see who does what cause there are so many similiars.. im not saying its rocket science.. but back than i remember i wanted more enemies, but i didnt just more with slightly different looks. but some are very cool (like the once fleeing from you and creating more and more creeps)

also i love the rooms with "survive" "stay in area" or "destroy obelisc".

so i would say part 2 is better, but the nostalgia of seeing 3 pyramids in the desert.. thats just totaly gone.. many people will not even see the ziggurat (i can spoil that, cause its literally in the games name)

Thanks! That explains a lot - can see a lot of enemy pdl's, usually my priority targets! XD

I did them all. It was interesting cause when you first look at them it seems impossible, but if you make the effort it actually goes pretty quickly.

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