Cs:Go w/ Vac and ESEA

[NyRex]

The last couple days, OR weeks in cs go have been crazy, people admitting to hacks, people saying they have hacked for years without being banned. What i want to know, Is how is VAC Doing such a bad job at finding hackers, Now come on, if you report sombody in game, it labels your report a ID, the IDs are about 9 numbers long, they arnt gonna go through all of them. Not only that, How does a third party program do a better job at having a anti cheat, then the game itself, and a "professional banning system" that "Only bans people if they cheat". It dosent seem to be banning them at all? Its almost as if ESEA pays vac to not ban cs go players, Only so they pay for esea. The ammount of cs go hackers is going up like crazy. Now i know VAC bans are delayed for about "3-4 weeks" which does have some sense to it in a way, But i can guarentee you that in 3-4 weeks from now, there will be at least double the hackers.

[NyRex]

ESEA has better anti cheat then VAC, Its a fact. They should make VAC better, That is also a fact. There are too many hackers, That is a fact. VAC isent banning as many people as it should, Yet again, Another fact

[Satoru]

Your last three "facts" are true of ALL anti cheat systems even ESEA

Therefore while "facts" are not relevant to whatever point you're trying to make and just make you sound like a moron. FACT!

[Spawn of Totoro]

Rex の投稿を引用：

ESEA has better anti cheat then VAC, Its a fact.

No, opinion. Even ESEA has it's flaws. False bans being one of them.

Rex の投稿を引用：

They should make VAC better, That is also a fact.

Again, opinion. VAC works and has the fewest false bans of any AC out there. This is because it is a passive system that detects known cheats. It isn't a random algorithm checking for unknown code.

Rex の投稿を引用：

There are too many hackers, That is a fact.

Yes, but that is a fact of ALL multi-player games. Not just VAC enabled games.

Rex の投稿を引用：

VAC isent banning as many people as it should, Yet again, Another fact

No, another opinion. Just because you think someone is cheating, does not mean they are. Just because they get 3 headshots in a row on you or hear you comming around the corner does not mean they ues an ainbot or a wallhack. Your preception does not equal a cheat. You can not use it as a basis for fact either.

You confuse opionion with fact too much.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact

[NyRex]

I never said i call cheats on sombody who gets 3 headshots in a row, I call cheats on people who use the autosniper and headshot noscope with it,repeadedly, When im dead and im watching them (Since iv had a few on my team) But come on now, Your pretty much sayin i go around calling everybody a hacker just because i die. I call people hackers when they ARE hackers

[Spawn of Totoro]

Rex の投稿を引用：

I never said i call cheats on sombody who gets 3 headshots in a row, I call cheats on people who use the autosniper and headshot noscope with it,repeadedly, When im dead and im watching them (Since iv had a few on my team) But come on now, Your pretty much sayin i go around calling everybody a hacker just because i die. I call people hackers when they ARE hackers

Calling someone a hacker with no proof is still going around calling people hackers. You can suspecting them of hacking, but VAC will ban them for hacking. That ban includes proof, not someone's opinion of the matter. That is why VAC doesn't take player reports or "evidence" as proof for a VAC ban.

[Tito Shivan]

Rex の投稿を引用：

I never said i call cheats on sombody who gets 3 headshots in a row, I call cheats on people who use the autosniper and headshot noscope with it,repeadedly, When im dead and im watching them (Since iv had a few on my team) But come on now, Your pretty much sayin i go around calling everybody a hacker just because i die. I call people hackers when they ARE hackers

Not specifically you, but a fair share of any given game playerbase.
Just going by the ammount of times i've been called a cheater, i could assume people has no damn clue of detecting a cheater.
Whatever you, me or anyone here state about 'detecting/seeing/Knowing cheaters' is fundamentally biased and prone to errors.
You call people cheaters when YOU THINK you are cheaters. You are not foolproof as neither am I. And we both have only our word about how good we can be detecting cheaters.

[NyRex]

I understand partially where your coming from, but aceing every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ round with a autosiper headshot every kill, speccing him and his mouse is spazzing, its downright obvious, I am NOT saying they are hackers just because i die

[Satoru]

Rex の投稿を引用：

I understand partially where your coming from, but aceing every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ round with a autosiper headshot every kill, speccing him and his mouse is spazzing, its downright obvious, I am NOT saying they are hackers just because i die

What you're suffering from is confirmation bias.

Also note that in a 6v6 game, if we assume that 5% of the population is cheating, the odds of you seeing at least one cheater in EVERY SINGLE GAME is

46% {math: 1 - (0.95^12) = 1 - 0.54 = 0.46}

Your PERCEPTION of cheating can be very different than reality.

[tadaaa]

Its weird how so many people are defending VAC, I wonder whether you guys play in MatchMaking at all.

I played 6 matches today, 2 of which had multiple hackers. VAC can look as much as it wants, but it needs to be a lot faster. How hard is it to catch speed hacks? I understand there might be confusion with actual lag, but obvious speed hacks should be immediately detectable. From CT spawn to T spawn in <5 seconds, not possible in any map and obvious speed hack. Yet people are running around free not afraid of the reports that we make.

[Satoru]

tadaaa の投稿を引用：

Its weird how so many people are defending VAC, I wonder whether you guys play in MatchMaking at all.

I played 6 matches today, 2 of which had multiple hackers. VAC can look as much as it wants, but it needs to be a lot faster. How hard is it to catch speed hacks? I understand there might be confusion with actual lag, but obvious speed hacks should be immediately detectable. From CT spawn to T spawn in <5 seconds, not possible in any map and obvious speed hack. Yet people are running around free not afraid of the reports that we make.

IT's always a balance between banning uses and false positives

And detection is HARD. After all the cheater has full control of the system. They have the ability to hide and to compromise the system in any way they wish. As I've said this is like a white cop on a bicycle trying to fight crime by himself in the streets of Harlem in the 80s. The cop has no control over then environment or the system. The criminals run the streets and can easily detect teh cop and evade detection and have complicity from the neighborhood.

What you SEE is easy but the system can't rely on that. It has to rely on detecting the actual cheat otherwise it's not scalable. Even a small batallion of 'admins' couldn't monitor and review every single report or demo. Such a system would also be highly prone to error. Again such systems are ok on very small scales where local admins can review and even review unban requests. But scale that to the millions of users over hundreds of different games, and you see how 'user review' becomes almost impossible.

[tadaaa]

Satoru の投稿を引用：

IT's always a balance between banning uses and false positives

And detection is HARD. After all the cheater has full control of the system. They have the ability to hide and to compromise the system in any way they wish. As I've said this is like a white cop on a bicycle trying to fight crime by himself in the streets of Harlem in the 80s. The cop has no control over then environment or the system. The criminals run the streets and can easily detect teh cop and evade detection and have complicity from the neighborhood.

What you SEE is easy but the system can't rely on that. It has to rely on detecting the actual cheat otherwise it's not scalable. Even a small batallion of 'admins' couldn't monitor and review every single report or demo. Such a system would also be highly prone to error. Again such systems are ok on very small scales where local admins can review and even review unban requests. But scale that to the millions of users over hundreds of different games, and you see how 'user review' becomes almost impossible.

I didn't suggest user review at all, just pointed out that there are obvious ways which the system is too slow to act on.

Plus, there's no reason why there can't be user-moderators either. There are very good players who can spot a hack (obviously I don't want everyone to be an mod; and their actions should be reversible), and if they happen to be in a game with hackers, then there can be instant action. That's way better than waiting for the system to scan through everything and that's assuming that the players even report them. I myself just powered through or just quitted matches without even reporting. It's frustrating to do because I know nothing's going to be done.

[NyRex]

Haha, I completly agree tadaaa, Im not understand why so many people are hating on me for trying to say that VAC just dosnt cut it very well, Now i know a lot of you will say VAC banned this person and that person, But all it takes is sombody to just google it and odds are VAC hasent found it yet, The people who work for vac should be acting like a normal user googling them, downloading them, finding out how to detect it, im sure they arnt doing that now because there are just so many hackers

[Vinal.3]

Rex の投稿を引用：

Haha, I completly agree tadaaa, Im not understand why so many people are hating on me for trying to say that VAC just dosnt cut it very well, Now i know a lot of you will say VAC banned this person and that person, But all it takes is sombody to just google it and odds are VAC hasent found it yet, The people who work for vac should be acting like a normal user googling them, downloading them, finding out how to detect it, im sure they arnt doing that now because there are just so many hackers

True, usually the cheat websites sometimes the OP posts the source code of the hack, but it may not be updated to the latest making it harder for the VAC team to detect the hacks.

[Legendary old man]

CS:GO has P2P servers = total fail. They turned it into CSSCOD. Please do not support this trash game with P2P servers. Play CSS where they have admins and moderated servers and you can make your own server anytime you want. Stop buying trash games and maybe people will stop making trash games.

[Tito Shivan]

facedown の投稿を引用：

CS:GO has P2P servers = total fail. They turned it into CSSCOD. Please do not support this trash game with P2P servers. Play CSS where they have admins and moderated servers and you can make your own server anytime you want. Stop buying trash games and maybe people will stop making trash games.

CS:GO doesn't have P2P servers. It still relies on dedicated servers
However, they started using a Matchmaking service for competitive gamemodes that mostly drops people into community servers where administration is a never-known word.

Think on TF2's Valve Servers, then multiply that for a whole gamemode. Valve kinda shooted themselves on the foot with that philosophy.