Discussion on VAC Ban. Not an Unban Request or a Rage Post. Discussion Please.

[EpilithicRain]

Hi. I understand this forum consists primarily of users who cannot help me, and I'm not here to request an unban or otherwise rage. I purely want a civil and honest discussion.

I was recently VAC banned, and from some research, it appears that I have little to no hope of getting unbanned. The VAC ban policy appears to be that it will never be removed under any circumstances. Although there have been instances it's been removed, it is rare and usually only occurs when a mass number of players have been incorrectly banned for the same reason.


I realize that most of you will not believe me if I say I'm completely innocent. And for good reason too, because it seems that VAC is pretty reliable and most "innocent" players turn out to be lying. However, because regular users can't affect the state of the ban anyways, I'm not going to attempt to prove myself. For the sake of the discussion, please assume I am innocent for now. You can do research on me if you wish. If you wish to type something like "obviously a hacker lolololol" please understand that it does not contribute to the discussion, although I will respect your opinion.

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I've recently been VAC banned from playing on Team Fortress 2.
I'm fortunate that I'm poor and don't have many items. While I am disappointed that I did lose some items, most of which were gifts from friends, I'm not going to rage.
VAC is necessary. It's well developed. And Steam support is not "crappy." They have a tough job, and it's understandable to make mistakes.

Although I have little hope of being unbanned, I thought that it would be nice if the ban gave information on what caused it. Even if I were to create a new account, I have no idea what caused this first VAC ban. I would have done nothing differently on my new account than I would have on my currently banned one. It seems like a simple courtesy, and while it might alert hackers to which hack caused the ban, I still think the courtesy should be given for the sake of the few honest players.

On a second note, I was wondering if anybody else have been similarly banned for no known reason. I don't want hackers to suddenly come on this discussion and say "hurr durr I am innocent" but VAC bans seem to only be removed if a mass number of players have been affected. If I am not an isolated case, I might have a little more hope.

Additional details on my case:
- I have no hacks, no cheats, and no scripts. I do not even use bindings
- The only time I have changed game files, is when trying to figure out how to import a spray. No DLL files have been edited. I once deleted an improperly downloaded map file
- I have updated some time ago to Windows 10. I know there has been a discussion about whether the Windows 10 build in game bar is injected or not, but I don't know the merit of the discussion. Windows 10 has caused quite some problems for me already. If you are planning to update, wait a month or two first.

If anybody happens to find something on my account that does point to hacking, please let me know. I really just want to have an idea of what I can do to prevent this ban from happening again.
Thanks for any help and responses. Again, I don't want any ragers on here. Just a civil discussion.

[The Giving One]

Автор сообщения: EpilithicRain

While I had considered a user report being the reason for a ban, I find this highly unlikely. Not only am I not skilled enough to really be considered a hacker, but I do not have many enemies who would intentionally attempt to falsely report me. Not enough for Valve to pay attention, at least. At most, I've had good games where one or two players have thought I was hacking. Otherwise, I don't have anything to really brag about.
Even if enough users reported me for hacking, I would expect VAC to do a double check anyways, so user reports cannot be the only reason I was banned.

I am sorry if I am mistaken here from what you have posted just now, but it seems that you do not in fact have an understanding of how VAC works. VAC does not care about reports, or rank, or a user in general, as it is totally automated. What you seem to be referring to here is the Overwatch system, as that has a basis for functionality on reports from other users. You do understand the systems are totally different, don't you ?

Please forgive me if I have made some sort of error in understanding you here.

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/541907867784316839/#c541907867784576865

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/541907867784316839/

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: The Giving One

Автор сообщения: EpilithicRain

While I had considered a user report being the reason for a ban, I find this highly unlikely. Not only am I not skilled enough to really be considered a hacker, but I do not have many enemies who would intentionally attempt to falsely report me. Not enough for Valve to pay attention, at least. At most, I've had good games where one or two players have thought I was hacking. Otherwise, I don't have anything to really brag about.
Even if enough users reported me for hacking, I would expect VAC to do a double check anyways, so user reports cannot be the only reason I was banned.

I am sorry if I am mistaken here from what you have posted just now, but it seems that you do not in fact have an understanding of how VAC works. VAC does not care about reports, or rank, or a user in general, as it is totally automated. What you seem to be referring to here is the Overwatch system, as that has a basis for functionality on reports from other users. You do understand the systems are totally different, don't you ?

Please forgive me if I have made some sort of error in understanding you here.

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/541907867784316839/#c541907867784576865

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/541907867784316839/

Ah, I actually don't have CS:GO. I have heard of Overwatch, am not familiar with it.
I have in general assumed that VAC bans can be put in place manually. Perhaps this isn't so, but I would not understand why not. Afterall, an automatic system must have someone with high enough authority to manually control it as well. Valve can't ignore 3000 cheat reports even if VAC doesn't automatically detect something, can it? Eh, it doesn't matter either way.

I'm mostly grasping at straws. I have absolutely no clue as to what may have caused the ban, so I'm considering absolutely everything.

[The Giving One]

If you would like to discuss the possible reasons for your ban, then of course this discussion can go that route at your will. I was simply assuming from the beginning from the feeling I personally had from your well-worded comments, that you did not wish to go into those possibilities but by all means, if you wish it learn more, that is what we are here for and part of the reason why this forum exists, and it is the better part in my opinion quite frankly.

VAC is a totally automated system. There is no human intervention during a scan of your PC, therefore there is a much more consistent and error-free environment in existence, you see. Humans do make mistakes, but on an individually considered basis, computers do not.

That is why VAC is used by Valve, in my humble opinion. It will catch more cheaters in a wave with the least chance of false positives than any other anticheat system around. That is partiatlly extractet from one of the good mods here of these forums, and they are all good, so as to not show any confusion here from me.

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/541907867784316839/#c541907867784576865

Perhaps you have seen this link by now, as it navagates you to the quote of that good moderator here of these forums. I participated in that well-debated discussion also, and we had the priveledge of other good moderators leaving comments also during that discussion. The thread is stil open, in fact.

http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/541907867784316839/

This is the link to that thread in general, as you may have discovered at this point.

There are also two pinned threads conveinently placed at the top of this forum on the main page, and they are an excellent source of information.

One thread is concerning the VAC system, and the other is concerning the Overwatch, or "Game" ban system. When a user is Overwatch banned, they recieve a game ban red text on their profile home page that they do not have the ability to hide, and the same goes for VAC bans.

The Overwatch system is where the human intervention takes place, and you should read that thread, as it is explained there much better than I personally can.

Please ask specific questions here if you currently have any at all. The only foolish question is the one that remains unasked, you see.

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: Funz

I like short posts.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/rainpan9000/

Oh, it's the other Rain.
I think I have him friended, and we've played a game together.
I was not aware he was VAC banned. I have played a game online with him before on a VAC secured server. Perhaps it was a different account.

If you're assumption is that we are the same person, I am afraid not.
Many people have the name Rain in this game (thus the Epilithic, to make it unique).
You might be saying something else, sorry if I misunderstood you.

If you do believe that we are the same person, then I respect your thought. I am not Srgt Rain, and will not attempt to prove so beyond saying this. I am not aware of whether Srgt Rain was banned legitimately or not.

[Funz]

all those rain accounts are friended with the same people that have multiple banned accounts.
some even have bans on the same day.

with your friends list you should be an expert on VAC.

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: The Giving One

If you would like to discuss the possible reasons for your ban, then of course this discussion can go that route at your will. I was simply assuming... that you did not.

Your assumption is correct. I'm sorry. My wandering brain got the better of me.
Why I was banned is something that would not be discovered by listing every possibility. It is something I need to know eventually, but will not be accomplished here.

Автор сообщения: The Giving One

VAC is a totally automated system. There is no human intervention during a scan of your PC

I see. Since you write it with certainty, I will conclude that this is so.
It is what my research corroborates. I will try to focus on potential code based interferences with my communication to Steam support.

I actually agree with you. I am good with computers and a learning programmer, and Valve's current solution is the most logically viable one. Although I have been the target of VAC, I agree that it seems mostly well designed. The margin of error is significantly smaller than most other AC codes, and honestly, I have only met 2 hackers ever while playing TF2. Kudos to Valve.

Once again, thanks for your help. You seem to be pretty active on the forums, and I'm glad you came to post here.

[The Giving One]

It has been quite a pleasure indeed, to discuss this with you and others here, whereever that may apply. If the discussion continues, I would be fortunate and pleased to post comments in a positive and helpful manner. If nothing else comes of this thread, then I wish you the best of luck.

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: Funz

all those rain accounts are friended with the same people that have multiple banned accounts.
some even have bans on the same day.

with your friends list you should be an expert on VAC.

I'm sorry if I have aroused suspicion. I don't think I'll be able to ease it. I understand if you choose to continue to suspect me. It will ultimately have been my own fault.

I was actually not aware of what a VAC ban was until I was banned.
I wrote a whole bunch here, but you like short posts. I'll try my best.

Perhaps it'll help you believe me a little bit more if I told you that I'm not here to try to prove my innocence, neither will I be upset if Valve ultimately chooses to keep the ban on me.
I don't care either way if you believe me or not. From your perspective, I could very well be a hacker. Thanks for posting here either way. I do appreciate the feedback. You have not been rude or disrespectful, but you have simply pointed out something suspicious. Thank you.

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: The Giving One

It has been quite a pleasure indeed, to discuss this with you and others here, whereever that may apply. If the discussion continues, I would be fortunate and pleased to post comments in a positive and helpful manner. If nothing else comes of this thread, then I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you. The original point of the post was to try and find other banned players to see if I am an isolated case. This seems to be the case. I have a smaller chance of being unbanned, but so be it. The other point of the post was to share my experiences, in case it might help other players who are actually innocent. And your replies definitely will help in that regard.

If I am ultimately kept banned or unbanned, I'll update. It's only been 2 days, I would not be displeased if it took months for Valve to respond.

[Funz]

you have alt accounts and you keep friending the same people that keep getting accounts VAC banned.

I did not see you list family share in your list of details.

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: Funz

you have alt accounts and you keep friending the same people that keep getting accounts VAC banned.

I did not see you list family share in your list of details.

I have one alternative account, which I have left because it is linked to an outdated email, and I wanted to have a fresh start. That account does not have a VAC ban, or any ban for that matter.
The other accounts are not alternative accounts. I do not think it is possible to prove whether they are or not. I will not attempt to challenge your allegation.

I am not aware of what you mean by "family share" in my list of details. If it does not have compromising effects, then I'll be glad to do this family share thing.

Honestly, I think you are dwelling on the wrong thing. Yes, it is right to be suspicious of me. Yes, you should be suspicious of me. However, had I chosen not to friend my "alternative account" or friend other VAC banned accounts, you should still be suspicious of me.
If I were you, I would be thinking "even if these were not alt accounts, this guy is probably a hacker." My friends list should have no bearing on whether I am suspicious or not. You should be suspicious of me no matter what. THAT is something I would understand, and respect.
I do not wish to take this any further. If you do reply, please let me know what family share is.

[Funz]

if it would have added value to judge people here I may give it a try when that day comes.
why would you keep friending cheaters on both accounts again and again?

if you did not family share there are two other things that can get you banned.
a hijacked account
logging in to a (public)computer with cheats and play a VAC secured server.

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: Funz

if it would have added value to judge people here I may give it a try when that day comes.
why would you keep friending cheaters on both accounts again and again?

if you did not family share there are two other things that can get you banned.
a hijacked account
logging in to a (public)computer with cheats and play a VAC secured server.

Your first assumption is that I have friended them "on both accounts again and again."
In my first account, I had not friended anybody that I did not know in real life. In fact, I had only played on vanilla servers. Your assumption is that my first account is Srgt Rain. Once again, that is not my first account.
As I wrote, I was not aware of VAC bans previously. I was not aware I was friending cheaters. I did not think it was possible these guys were cheaters, because they are guys I have played with online on a VAC secured server. The Srgt Rain account may have many cheaters friended, but it is not mine. For this account, the only account I actually own, I do not think it's possible to have many cheaters friended, since they've all played on VAC secured servers.

I think I had misinterpreted what you meant by Family Share. I have not shared my account with anybody, nor used it on any other computer. My account may have been hijacked, but my password appears to not be compromised. If the ban is a result of a hijack, then I'll take responsibility for the ban. But my password is complex, and it is relatively unlikely I have been target of a hijack.

I'm not sure what you mean by "if it would have added value to judge people here... etc." but thanks for your judgements anyways. You are taking the time to respond to me, so I appreciate that.

[Funz]

if you use steam guard the email is the obvious point of entry for your steam account.
but you would have noticed that you were hijacked.

[EpilithicRain]

Автор сообщения: Funz

if you use steam guard the email is the obvious point of entry for your steam account.
but you would have noticed that you were hijacked.

Yes that is true. I do use Steam Guard. My email also lets me know if it's been accessed from a different IP. It has not. It's a gaming email that I don't use frequently, but only to register for all my games, to prevent spam on my main / business email.

That does not reject the idea of being hijacked, but it's unlikely. Either way, Steam does not remove VAC bans as the result of hijacks, and if I were hijacked, that's my own fault.