How do VAC ban waves work? :: VAC Discussion

gwait Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:35pm

New cheats get added to the VAC blacklist and people who used these cheats get banned at the same time.

And whilst there could be arguments made from both sides, Valve's reasoning is that it delays cheat development. I suppose it helps them so they can keep up and the VAC system is not so quickly bypassed.

Last edited by gwait; Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:37pm

#1

Jerry Cooperman Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:37pm

Originally posted by gwait:
New cheats get added to the VAC blacklist and people who used that cheat get banned at the same time.

And whilst there could be arguments made from both sides, Valve's reasoning is that it delays cheat development.

When was the last one and when is the next and why do they ban them at the same time instead of getting rid of them quickly

#2

gwait Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:38pm

Originally posted by Comical:
When was the last one and when is the next and why do they ban them at the same time instead of getting rid of them quickly

VAC waves are unnanounced, and the latest ones were:

2 months ago - ~40K bans
1 month ago - ~44K bans

I suppose they are looking to surprise the cheaters and also ban as many of them at once as possible.

Last edited by gwait; Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:42pm

#3

Jerry Cooperman Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:41pm

Originally posted by gwait:
Originally posted by Comical:
When was the last one and when is the next and why do they ban them at the same time instead of getting rid of them quickly

VAC waves are unnanounced, and the latest ones were:

2 months ago - ~28K bans
1 month ago - ~44K bans

I suppose they are looking to surprise the cheaters and also ban as many of them at once as possible.

You seem to know alot about vac can I send you a post I made earlier and get your opinion on it
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/1474222595313613097/

#4

Longhaul Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:43pm

They will not post when they are going to start the next "ban wave". Single people get banned all the time... eg.. Friday, Aug 18, 2017 there were 44,859 VAC bans and 7,466 Game bans. People are getting banned daily. When the wave hits you will see it.
Funny... as of right now there are 6,315,865 VAC banned accounts. And... 1,253,773 Game bans.
VAC is easy enough to check up on .. https://steamdb.info/stats/bans/

Last edited by Longhaul; Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:44pm

#5

gwait Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:45pm

Originally posted by Comical:
You seem to know alot about vac can I send you a post I made earlier and get your opinion on it
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/1474222595313613097/

No one can tell you for guarantee whether a certain thing will trigger or will not trigger a ban. You can only learn by doing it yourself or from past experiences of other people. So can't say much about this, sorry. I'll gladly answer any more questions about VAC waves though!

#6

Falro the Great Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:49pm

Originally posted by Comical:
Originally posted by gwait:

VAC waves are unnanounced, and the latest ones were:

2 months ago - ~28K bans
1 month ago - ~44K bans

I suppose they are looking to surprise the cheaters and also ban as many of them at once as possible.

You seem to know alot about vac can I send you a post I made earlier and get your opinion on it
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/1474222595313613097/

The answer to that can be found via a simple formula:
Does it provide an unfair advantage over other users? (this is an easy question, don't think about it too much)
Does it connect directly to a game in a way that would raise suspicion from the average person?

If the answers to those questions was "no", then it is pretty safe to say that it will not cause a VAC ban.

Note that this doesn't work the other way around - VAC bans can be earned from other things besides cheating (see the pinned thread) - but it is useful in determining whether something should raise concern or not.

Also note that I am not a VAC developer, nor a Steam employee, so obviously take this with a little bit of salt.

Last edited by Falro the Great; Sep 13, 2017 @ 3:50pm

#7

Jerry Cooperman Sep 13, 2017 @ 6:24pm

Originally posted by gwait:
Originally posted by Comical:
You seem to know alot about vac can I send you a post I made earlier and get your opinion on it
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/1474222595313613097/

No one can tell you for guarantee whether a certain thing will trigger or will not trigger a ban. You can only learn by doing it yourself or from past experiences of other people. So can't say much about this, sorry. I'll gladly answer any more questions about VAC waves though!

Also if I was banned due to the thing I made the post I linked to would I be able to talk to steam support and let them know that what I did had no effects on any games.

#8

Satoru Sep 13, 2017 @ 6:26pm

Originally posted by Comical:
Originally posted by gwait:

No one can tell you for guarantee whether a certain thing will trigger or will not trigger a ban. You can only learn by doing it yourself or from past experiences of other people. So can't say much about this, sorry. I'll gladly answer any more questions about VAC waves though!

Also if I was banned due to the thing I made the post I linked to would I be able to talk to steam support and let them know that what I did had no effects on any games.

As I indicated in your thread, you wont be banned for using standard command line options in a game

#9

gwait Sep 13, 2017 @ 6:26pm

Yes, you are able to submit more information and they forward it to the VAC team who then reviews it.

#10

Jerry Cooperman Sep 13, 2017 @ 6:29pm

Originally posted by gwait:
Yes, you are able to submit more information and they forward it to the VAC team who then reviews it.

Thank you for youre help

#11

Jerry Cooperman Sep 13, 2017 @ 6:30pm

Originally posted by Satoru:
Originally posted by Comical:

Also if I was banned due to the thing I made the post I linked to would I be able to talk to steam support and let them know that what I did had no effects on any games.

As I indicated in your thread, you wont be banned for using standard command line options in a game

I wanted to be as thorough as possible and also it wasnt a specific game it was in the main steam files properties

#12

The Giving One Sep 13, 2017 @ 6:56pm

Originally posted by Comical:
And wouldnt it be more effective to ban cheaters on the spot.

It's not possible to do that accurately at all. Yes, cheaters can be banned "on the spot" but if the anticheat did that and worked that way, a huge number of innocent accounts would also be banned.

If VAC detects a suspicious process, it is flagged and looked at closely in review and tested, to see if it is a cheat, but at that exact time, it is not an identifiable cheat. VAC cannot ban for that which it done not know for sure is cheating.

Yes, there are some processes out there that may give VAC suspicions when they are detected, but if they are not "identifiable" cheats, then the account cannot be rightfully VAC banned for them.

This would yield a huge amount of incorrectly applied bans. And this is one thing that many overlook because they are too frustrated with VAC not banning sooner....and that is......

Incorrectly applied VAC bans are extremely rare. This mean that innocent players are much more protected against wrongly applied bans. Incorrectly applied bans are bad....very bad. VAC does not do this often at all, in extremely rare cases, and removes them automatically if they are incorrectly applied.

So you cannot have it both ways. If more cheaters are to be banned, and innocent players better protected against false bans, and cheats harder to playtest due to bans being delayed, then VAC is the best anticheat there is....hands down.

This is where most hate on VAC, because the bans are delayed, and new cheats are being developed all the the time. How can an anticheat accurately ban for that which it does not know for sure is a cheat ? The answer is.....it can't....not accurately that is.

#13

Jerry Cooperman Sep 13, 2017 @ 7:00pm

Originally posted by The Giving One:
Originally posted by Comical:
And wouldnt it be more effective to ban cheaters on the spot.
It's not possible to do that accurately at all. Yes, cheaters can be banned "on the spot" but if the anticheat did that and worked that way, a huge number of innocent accounts would also be banned.

If VAC detects a suspicious process, it is flagged and looked at closely in review and tested, to see if it is a cheat, but at that exact time, it is not an identifiable cheat. VAC cannot ban for that which it done not know for sure is cheating.

Yes, there are some processes out there that may give VAC suspicions when they are detected, but if they are not "identifiable" cheats, then the account cannot be rightfully VAC banned for them.

This would yield a huge amount of incorrectly applied bans. And this is one thing that many overlook because they are too frustrated with VAC not banning sooner....and that is......

Incorrectly applied VAC bans are extremely rare. This mean that innocent players are much more protected against wrongly applied bans. Incorrectly applied bans are bad....very bad. VAC does not do this often at all, in extremely rare cases, and removes them automatically if they are incorrectly applied.

So you cannot have it both ways. If more cheaters are to be banned, and innocent players better protected against false bans, and cheats harder to playtest due to bans being delayed, then VAC is the best anticheat there is....hands down.

This is where most hate on VAC, because the bans are delayed, and new cheats are being developed all the the time. How can an anticheat accurately ban for that which it does not know for sure is a cheat ? The answer is.....it can't....not accurately that is.

oh I did not know that, thanks for helping me understand. I thought that if they thought they found a cheat that they would not check it and automatically have you banned next wave.

#14

The Giving One Sep 13, 2017 @ 7:06pm

See, thing is, some think apparenly (not saying you do) that cheats give off these magical warnings and red flags are are easy to spot and no other process out there even looks or detects like a cheat.

This is simply not true. VAC may detect it and it looks suspicious, but if VAC does not know for sure it is a cheat, then VAC cannot ban for it. That would be wrong, as the process may be a totally innocent modification to the files of the game.

Until VAC knows for sure that is a cheat, and it is in the system as an "identifiable" cheat, then VAC can accurately ban for it if it is "identified", when an account is connected to a VAC secure server.

I hope this is not too far off topic from your original post . It seems we are getting more specific as to have VAC itself works, not the waves actually.

To be honest, we don't know much at all specifically about VAC waves, until they happen and then we see the results here in this forum and elsewhere as those with banned accounts discuss it, either on or off Steam.

When waves happen, it gets a huge number of cheaters, but on any given day, VAC is banning a large number of accounts anyway.

Last edited by The Giving One; Sep 13, 2017 @ 7:08pm

#15

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