retro games , are they flooding steam.

[ratarsed666]

Since the steam green light has enabled more people to make games that can be then marketed on steam ive noticed that nearly 3/4 of games on special offer are indie low buget games and the prices are crazy for the quality.
I think that as well as letting us vote on the game on the green light system they should tell you the market price if chosen, because i am sure if the game looks amusing for a few hours casual playing a price tag of 7+ pounds might make you reject the game for being bad value for money.
The quality of some of the games is poor nintedo standard only not as polished.

[Ultrapwnd]

Can you give me a real example of a "retro" game? People throw this term around but can you name any really generic "retro" games that have been released in the past few months?

[ratarsed666]

retro games are games that are made to look like they are from the 80's and 90's and tend to look like they might be writen in basic language circa space invaders.
wagon adventure would be a good example.
im not knocking the playability just that game evolution should go forward not backwards.
nostalgia is good for a bit but with modern tecnology why have a lada when you should at least aspire for somthing better.
but my moan is really value for money on some games and the chance to be able to gauge this before you buy.
unlike some steam members who make it there lifes work hunting awards and can spend any amount on a game to get another award to boost their ego from any game nomatter how badly made.
some of us have familys (real poeple ) to support and have to be a bit careful with what cash we spend, so that buying a game that turns into a turkey might be a bigger disapiontment, infact bugger up your plans for your day off.

[crunchyfrog]

ratarsed666 eredeti hozzászólása:

retro games are games that are made to look like they are from the 80's and 90's and tend to look like they might be writen in basic language circa space invaders.
wagon adventure would be a good example.
im not knocking the playability just that game evolution should go forward not backwards.
nostalgia is good for a bit but with modern tecnology why have a lada when you should at least aspire for somthing better.
but my moan is really value for money on some games and the chance to be able to gauge this before you buy.
unlike some steam members who make it there lifes work hunting awards and can spend any amount on a game to get another award to boost their ego from any game nomatter how badly made.
some of us have familys (real poeple ) to support and have to be a bit careful with what cash we spend, so that buying a game that turns into a turkey might be a bigger disapiontment, infact bugger up your plans for your day off.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but most games from that era were NOT written in BASIC, but good old fashioned machine code. Games nowadays are often written in much the same way as BASIC - just "straightforward" language. But I'm being pedantic, as I do get your point.

Unfortunately, I absolutely disagree with your premise that games should be going forwards - this is UTTERLY WRONG. Some should, some shouldn't.

Games are an art form in essence. There should be no rules, as with music, film, and art itself. You should always do what fits with the premise. THAT'S what drives things.

It's much the same as this idiotic claim from some people that games must aspire to be "realistic" which is rubbish (being accessible and realistic are mutually exclusive terms anyway). Take Payday 2 - a game that was written PRECISELY for the audience, by involving the fans of the first game. It did not spend a fortune writing a shiny new engine, and it is far from graphically astonishing. What it did do was work a clean, and simple art style which serves the purpose precisely. Why shouldn't that be so, especially when from the business point of view, it was incredibly successful?

Let me give you another analogy - music. If, as you say, progress must be the overriding theme, then classic rock bands such as Oasis or the Stone Roses wouldn't be allowed to exist, and that would be a travesty.

I certainly hear what you say - I have a family too, and am disabled, so my funds are rather limited. However, I can comfortably shop around and buy massive amounts because I always wait for games to reach a price I deem acceptable for them. Patience is the key word here.

But here's the bottom line - you asked why there are so many retro games pooping up, and I'll tell you the absolute answer: because there's a demand for them. You don't have to like them, but you DO have to appreciate others do.

[CyberDown]

Yeah i dont mind some retro games, some are actually good, and sometimes you just want an old school video game...

But i agree with the OP....steam is getting flooded and a whole lot of these games just look like someone spent a weekend making a game and said "fck it lets see if steam will take this and see if i can make some moolah"

Right now i almost immediately vote no on greenlight when i see pixlated graphics or 8 bit...im just sick of it right now...and there are already TONS of them on steam to choose from...which is sad i guess since im sure some good games are getting no voted or whatever...

I like the idea of supporting indy and small projects...but its like enough of it already.

[Jhemp12]

i do wish there was a filter i could use to seperate the indie games from the non indie games..i am not a big fan of indie games myself.

[crunchyfrog]

joshhempfleng eredeti hozzászólása:

i do wish there was a filter i could use to seperate the indie games from the non indie games..i am not a big fan of indie games myself.

Might be rather difficult - genres are difficult to filter in any case.

Indie games is a particularly strange "genre" as it is often misinterpreted. A lot of people incorrectly think it means "smaller, retro-styled games" when the true definition is that the game was created by an independent studio without major external funding or resources - nothing more than that. So, such a description mentions NOTHING about gameplay style, technical specification or length, or even budget.

So, indies have existed for quite a while and companies such as Level-5 (who did Dragon Quest 8, Ni No Kuni, Dark Cloud) are indie too.

So, I think that'd be completely pointless.

[ratarsed666]

crunchy i do wish you would read my messages properley , as you burate me for saying that i said that 80,s and 90,s games are writen in basic, but of cause i just said "look like they might be written in basic" a very different thing.
and at no point did i say i dont like all indi and retro games, just that the some of them are better value than others.
as reguards games being art that is dependant on you opinion on what constitutes art and if that is your interest i suggest that you listen to the Reith lectures 2013 on radio 4 it has grayson perry talking about what art is.
crunchy ive noticed that you always follow the party line of steam opinions , are you frightend they might take your games away if you disagree with them?.
and buy the way oasis and the stone roses aint classic rock by any means...funny enough it was 90's guitar pop......i speak as a ageing rocker myself and you could hardly call it classic rock, or rock of any kind.

[crunchyfrog]

ratarsed666 eredeti hozzászólása:

crunchy i do wish you would read my messages properley , as you burate me for saying that i said that 80,s and 90,s games are writen in basic, but of cause i just said "look like they might be written in basic" a very different thing.
and at no point did i say i dont like all indi and retro games, just that the some of them are better value than others.
as reguards games being art that is dependant on you opinion on what constitutes art and if that is your interest i suggest that you listen to the Reith lectures 2013 on radio 4 it has grayson perry talking about what art is.
crunchy ive noticed that you always follow the party line of steam opinions , are you frightend they might take your games away if you disagree with them?.
and buy the way oasis and the stone roses aint classic rock by any means...funny enough it was 90's guitar pop......i speak as a ageing rocker myself and you could hardly call it classic rock, or rock of any kind.

Likewise, read mine. I CLEARLY said "I'm being pedantic" and "I get your point" - how did you miss that?

Art is defined as something which has no other purpose than being itself. I'll naturally concede many people have other ideas of what art, but what you seemed to miss was the ANALOGY. It wasn't really important whether games ARE art, the analogy is still sound.

I do not follow "party line" (whaever that is) - you're making assumptions. I have been extremely critical of Steam of a few things. However, just because I agree with common sense, logic and have empathy, that does not mean I'm following any other person than my own experiences or thoughts. I've been around in this business long enough, and have been privileged to have been a gaming journalist in my past, so maybe I do understand more than one side of arguments. Have you ever considered the possibility that the very reasons I'm agreeing with others is because we may be right?

Oasis and the Stone Roses disagree with you, as Noel Gallagher and Ian Brown have bother commented on being rock bands. Likewise, the Stone Roses first album has been voted by many reputable resources as being one of the finest albums ever written. You couldn't get more classic than that.

However, despite this, the analgoy is once again sound. Let's substitute the names for something you might be more comfortable with, and use that, eh?

By all means counter my points, instead of picking or misinterpreting intent, please. I complemented you on being civil before - let's keep it that way please. Once you start alluding to me only following some sort of ideal or doctrine that starts sounding like silly conspiracy.

[ratarsed666]

crunchy i would like to take you up on your bit about games being art.
my daughter scribbles on a peice of paper, is it art?, it may have some artistic merit it, it may not' but i put it to you that it's still a scribble.
Taking an idea and making it happen may be creative but is it art? if it is then the next time i need a Trip to the bogg i might try and sell the result.

[ratarsed666]

oasis and stone roses were never followed by rock fans when they were in the charts , as i rember there fans were chav's and students and the poll you mention was probably taken in the NME at a guess. (pink floyd , metalica, iron maiden AC/DC have all out sold oasis on the world stage and i could name 20 others all rock bands)
you give your age away by your tastes.....lol
lets lighten this up a bit as we seem to be a bit off track.
so why are you arguing against better value for money and better info on what a games like before buying?.

[Marble]

It's fine if you don't appreciate certain games and you are well within your right to criticize them, but there is no point in trying to convince people who are enjoying for what they are that they are wrong, nor question their perception of their own definition of art. It is an argument without an answer.

[crunchyfrog]

You seem to be either completely ignoring my comments, or misinterpreting them.

Firstly, as I said in my last post, the subject of games being art is moot, as the analogy that it referred to is still valid if games AREN'T art.

Likewise the comments about classic rock being applicable if you substitute the groups for those of your own choosing. I could equally use any modern classical musician/composer or maybe "old-school" techno such as Orbital - it doesn't matter, again because the analogy still works.

That's the point.

Anyway, I will reiterate that as Noel Gallagher and Ian Brown have referred to THEMSELVES being rock groups, I'd take their word for it, as nobody knows what they are better than themselves. Now you can debate that until the cows come home, but it's moot.

Furthermore, I've given my age away have I? What age would that be? Let's see if your perception is as good as your reading of analogies (sorry if that's blunt, I couldn't think of a nicer way to put it).

Lastly, I'm not against value for money. For someone who claims to have read my other comments that should be abundantly clear.

I don't know how you're getting the wrong end of the stick so much but if you're just trying to argue or split hairs, I'm having nothing to do with it. Address my points appropriately and stop picking at the edges, or leave it, please.

But, to make my points ABSOLUTELY clear, I shall remove the analogies and just reiterate the points:

- Games don't have to be progressive by using the most up-to-date tech or pushing the envelope by creating new genres, any more than music or any other entertainment genre.

- "Retro" games are written for one reason - the demand is clearly there. You can choose to buy them or not. Simple as that.

- Your point about being careful with your money was irrelevant, as that's a global idea. It applies to ALL games, and is not something that relates to just "retro" games in any way. Anyone with an ounce of common sense researches and shops around.

So address those points, instead of skirting the issues.

[ratarsed666]

mid to late 30's at a guess for your age crunchy at a guess.
so what would you like to see done to improve customer knowledge about a games shelf life before purchase.
can you tell me your sugestion on what us meir mortals might do to ensure that a game is portayed by it's creater honestly and at a fair price.

[crunchyfrog]

ratarsed666 eredeti hozzászólása:

mid to late 30's at a guess for your age crunchy at a guess.
so what would you like to see done to improve customer knowledge about a games shelf life before purchase.
can you tell me your sugestion on what us meir mortals might do to ensure that a games as it is portayed by it's creater?

Quite wrong - I'm 49.

What would I like to see done to improve customer knowledge? That's very simple indeed - customer to accept responsibility in educating themselves. We have the internet. Back in pre-internet days it was more difficult to find out whether a game was crap or not, but many people including myself still managed it pretty well. There is no excuse at all today to buy a game without working out what it's about and how good it is.

However, as I continually bang on about, the legal side of it (particularly in digital distribution) is something I've been uncomfortable with, as there's been some beinding of regional laws which is never good for the customer. That's why I've been eagerly publicising the changes to our Consumer Laws this month (and partly because I'm a legal advisor), when us in England and Wales are able to INSIST on refund of a game if a it is some way faulty, bringing it in line with physical goods.

As long as the providers are up-front about what their games entail and the requirements to run them, there is nothing further they should do. The rest is down to the consumer - but you can lead a horse to water, as they say....

A game's shelf-life before purchase?

I'm not sure I get what you mean by this. Shelf-life is determined by one thing only - demand. Customer knowledge about a game's shelf life is another matter, and that is answered by my answer above. Research from the consumer, and an educated estimation.

I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence (I guess you mean "mere" mortals?) - what can we do to ensure that a game is as it is portrayed by it's creator? The answer is obvious: NOTHING.

What control do we have over this? How do we know what the creator wants? Surely the creator knows better than anyone his/her own mind.

If there is a disparity between their artistic vision and the end result, that is a matter between developer and publisher. There's no other possible answer that I can see.

[ratarsed666]

the idea that if a game is faulty you sould have redress is funny as what game dont have gliches.
play any game for a week, it crashes once and demand your money back.?
and you said my idea's were miss placed.
thats crazy.
but im just a simple man , self educatated with bad spelling ( that twots keep correcting in an effort to act suppierior) not a ex jurnalist and legal advisor.